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globespanscott
09-01-2013, 11:59
Sorry for the long winded post but been sitting trying to work out this shambles of reconstruction and have come up with following. Am i right or wrong?

SPL teams at bottom of table
Team A Lose 22 games 0 Points
Team B Lose 20 Games Win 2 6 Points
Team C Lose 18 Games Win 4 12 Points
Team D Lose 16 games win 6 18 Points

SFL Teams at top table
Team E Win 22 Games 66 Points
Team F Win 20 Games Lose 2 60 Points
Team G Win 18 games lose 4 54 points
Team H Win 16 games lose 6 48 points

After Split
Team A Win 14 games 42 points
Team B Win 12 Games 36 points
Team C Win 10 Games 30 points
Team D Win 8 Games 24 Points
Team E Win 0 Lose 14Games 0 Points
Team F win 2 Lose 12 Fames 6 Points
Team G Win 4 Lose 10Games 12 points
Team H win 6 Lose 8 Games 18 Points
Teams ABCD all the teams that were “relegated” are promoted back to SPL 1 as points are wiped out at the split, however below shows what is technically possible if you look at the points gained through all 36 games.
Team A Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team B Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team C Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team D Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team E Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team F Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team G points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)
Team H Points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)

Promotion back to SPL would go to Team A B C D even although teams EFGH all gained 66 points through the course of the season.

If I am right in these calculations then this is even more shambolic than I first thought

Bill the Butcher
09-01-2013, 12:02
My head hurts! :D

ssblue
09-01-2013, 12:04
Nae draws? :D

You are correct though.

aldo30
09-01-2013, 12:04
My head hurts! :D

Beat me to it.

Got past first line and needed to take a sip of voddy, :D

white owl
09-01-2013, 12:06
Beat me to it.

Got past first line and needed to take a sip of voddy, :D

at this time, tell me your job is a voddy taster

Fin5769
09-01-2013, 12:06
I think you'e right, but doesn't that happen currently, i.e. the 7th placed team can end up with a higher points total than the 6th placed team?

instructor
09-01-2013, 12:06
You are correct, even more shambolic than the current set up which at least doesn't affect relegation and promotion so severely.

globespanscott
09-01-2013, 12:07
Beat me to it.

Got past first line and needed to take a sip of voddy, :D

sorry Guys :o:D

Dadoprso's ponytail9
09-01-2013, 12:09
What a shambles!!

Witney Devil
09-01-2013, 12:12
Sorry for the long winded post but been sitting trying to work out this shambles of reconstruction and have come up with following. Am i right or wrong?

SPL teams at bottom of table
Team A Lose 22 games 0 Points
Team B Lose 20 Games Win 2 6 Points
Team C Lose 18 Games Win 4 12 Points
Team D Lose 16 games win 6 18 Points

SFL Teams at top table
Team E Win 22 Games 66 Points
Team F Win 20 Games Lose 2 60 Points
Team G Win 18 games lose 4 54 points
Team H Win 16 games lose 6 48 points

After Split
Team A Win 14 games 42 points
Team B Win 12 Games 36 points
Team C Win 10 Games 30 points
Team D Win 8 Games 24 Points
Team E Win 0 Lose 14Games 0 Points
Team F win 2 Lose 12 Fames 6 Points
Team G Win 4 Lose 10Games 12 points
Team H win 6 Lose 8 Games 18 Points
Teams ABCD all the teams that were “relegated” are promoted back to SPL 1 as points are wiped out at the split, however below shows what is technically possible if you look at the points gained through all 36 games.
Team A Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team B Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team C Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team D Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team E Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team F Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team G points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)
Team H Points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)

Promotion back to SPL would go to Team A B C D even although teams EFGH all gained 66 points through the course of the season.

If I am right in these calculations then this is even more shambolic than I first thought

The only part you missed out are the ancillary rules that means if you wear a light blue top you have to give the opposition 2 goals of a start and any games played on a Saturday or Sunday don't count.

big poppa
09-01-2013, 12:16
i just find it staggering this pile of shit is likely to get the go ahead.

globespanscott
09-01-2013, 12:18
The only part you missed out are the ancillary rules that means if you wear a light blue top you have to give the opposition 2 goals of a start and any games played on a Saturday or Sunday don't count.

That one completely slipped my mind:D

devsy
09-01-2013, 12:18
i posted a similar thread earlier....

also raised the point about the 'trophy' in this league.. who gets it?

the team that finished 8th in SPL1 after 22 games but finished 1st in the split of 8 or the team that finished 1st in SPL2 after 22 games but finished bottom in the split of 8??

Sore heads all round gentleman

jjbscotty
09-01-2013, 12:18
The only part you missed out are the ancillary rules that means if you wear a light blue top you have to give the opposition 2 goals of a start and any games played on a Saturday or Sunday don't count.Made me :D

madride
09-01-2013, 12:18
It's ok though if it doesn't make sense, Rhegan is going to educate us all prior to the go ahead

TOBL
09-01-2013, 12:29
It is pretty conceivable that there would never be 'relegations' from the top tier under the new proposals. yes.

TOBL
09-01-2013, 12:32
An example of how this worked in Austria in the 80's

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985–86_Austrian_Football_Bundesliga

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986–87_Austrian_Football_Bundesliga

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987–88_Austrian_Football_Bundesliga

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988–89_Austrian_Football_Bundesliga

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989–90_Austrian_Football_Bundesliga

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990–91_Austrian_Football_Bundesliga

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_Austrian_Football_Bundesliga

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992–93_Austrian_Football_Bundesliga

There was always teams 'promoted' but the system was eventually scrapped

Was also used in switzerland until 2003. Example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000–01_Nationalliga_A

Dede' Arneaux
09-01-2013, 12:33
It's ok though if it doesn't make sense, Rhegan is going to educate us all prior to the go ahead

and attempt to sell it to Sky - we'll be a laughing stock (wait a minute)

18kjmmd73
09-01-2013, 12:36
An example of how this worked in Austria in the 80's


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989–90_Austrian_Football_Bundesliga

I would be surprised if this lasts longer than Austria's.
Splits are just a mess of a way to run a league.

blueintheface
09-01-2013, 12:36
Sorry for the long winded post but been sitting trying to work out this shambles of reconstruction and have come up with following. Am i right or wrong?

SPL teams at bottom of table
Team A Lose 22 games 0 Points
Team B Lose 20 Games Win 2 6 Points
Team C Lose 18 Games Win 4 12 Points
Team D Lose 16 games win 6 18 Points

SFL Teams at top table
Team E Win 22 Games 66 Points
Team F Win 20 Games Lose 2 60 Points
Team G Win 18 games lose 4 54 points
Team H Win 16 games lose 6 48 points

After Split
Team A Win 14 games 42 points
Team B Win 12 Games 36 points
Team C Win 10 Games 30 points
Team D Win 8 Games 24 Points
Team E Win 0 Lose 14Games 0 Points
Team F win 2 Lose 12 Fames 6 Points
Team G Win 4 Lose 10Games 12 points
Team H win 6 Lose 8 Games 18 Points
Teams ABCD all the teams that were “relegated” are promoted back to SPL 1 as points are wiped out at the split, however below shows what is technically possible if you look at the points gained through all 36 games.
Team A Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team B Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team C Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team D Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team E Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team F Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team G points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)
Team H Points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)

Promotion back to SPL would go to Team A B C D even although teams EFGH all gained 66 points through the course of the season.

If I am right in these calculations then this is even more shambolic than I first thought


The 2 leagues splitting into 3 is a mess but the issue you've raised here is a minor one.

People need to look at the first 22 games as a qualifying phase. The top 8 will all play each other 4 times and the other 4 from the top 12 twice. Likewise with the bottom 8. The middle 8 will not see teams playing the same teams the same amount of times so points have to be reset.

It's a non-starter for me but I'm not going to simply pretend I can't comprehend it, because it's not complex, just illogical.

200000 Heroes
09-01-2013, 12:42
Sorry for the long winded post but been sitting trying to work out this shambles of reconstruction and have come up with following. Am i right or wrong?

SPL teams at bottom of table
Team A Lose 22 games 0 Points
Team B Lose 20 Games Win 2 6 Points
Team C Lose 18 Games Win 4 12 Points
Team D Lose 16 games win 6 18 Points

SFL Teams at top table
Team E Win 22 Games 66 Points
Team F Win 20 Games Lose 2 60 Points
Team G Win 18 games lose 4 54 points
Team H Win 16 games lose 6 48 points

After Split
Team A Win 14 games 42 points
Team B Win 12 Games 36 points
Team C Win 10 Games 30 points
Team D Win 8 Games 24 Points
Team E Win 0 Lose 14Games 0 Points
Team F win 2 Lose 12 Fames 6 Points
Team G Win 4 Lose 10Games 12 points
Team H win 6 Lose 8 Games 18 Points
Teams ABCD all the teams that were “relegated” are promoted back to SPL 1 as points are wiped out at the split, however below shows what is technically possible if you look at the points gained through all 36 games.
Team A Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team B Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team C Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team D Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team E Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team F Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team G points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)
Team H Points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)

Promotion back to SPL would go to Team A B C D even although teams EFGH all gained 66 points through the course of the season.

If I am right in these calculations then this is even more shambolic than I first thought


I think you'e right, but doesn't that happen currently, i.e. the 7th placed team can end up with a higher points total than the 6th placed team?


i posted a similar thread earlier....

also raised the point about the 'trophy' in this league.. who gets it?

the team that finished 8th in SPL1 after 22 games but finished 1st in the split of 8 or the team that finished 1st in SPL2 after 22 games but finished bottom in the split of 8??

Sore heads all round gentleman

You are all right.

Ludicrous anomalies all over the place.

Teams with higher points tallies relegated.

No trophy awarded for 1st Division championship, effectively ending the second tier as a proper league and turning it into nothing more than SPL playoff qualifiers.

No promotion from fourth tier this year, effectively rendering the entire season meaningless.

Top Super 8 section is a one horse race joke.

Bottom National 8 is so unattractive to TV and fans it is almost unbelievable. Who on earth wants to watch 8 teams who regularly struggle to draw 400 fans into their stadia slugging it out to avoid despatch into the dungeon of Longshanks Longmuir's rump of the old SFL?

These are all the reasons that the Swiss and Austrians ditched the shite experiment when they tried it.

Our game is already on the skids after the ludicrous decision to consign the biggest attraction of the entire show into the bottom tier. This garbage will add nothing to the recovery period.

Finally, let's not kid ourselves that this deal won't include an agreement that Longshanks has signed to broadcast almost all our games and hand over our TV money to the other clubs.

macaloon9
09-01-2013, 12:43
Sorry for the long winded post but been sitting trying to work out this shambles of reconstruction and have come up with following. Am i right or wrong?

SPL teams at bottom of table
Team A Lose 22 games 0 Points
Team B Lose 20 Games Win 2 6 Points
Team C Lose 18 Games Win 4 12 Points
Team D Lose 16 games win 6 18 Points

SFL Teams at top table
Team E Win 22 Games 66 Points
Team F Win 20 Games Lose 2 60 Points
Team G Win 18 games lose 4 54 points
Team H Win 16 games lose 6 48 points

After Split
Team A Win 14 games 42 points
Team B Win 12 Games 36 points
Team C Win 10 Games 30 points
Team D Win 8 Games 24 Points
Team E Win 0 Lose 14Games 0 Points
Team F win 2 Lose 12 Fames 6 Points
Team G Win 4 Lose 10Games 12 points
Team H win 6 Lose 8 Games 18 Points
Teams ABCD all the teams that were “relegated” are promoted back to SPL 1 as points are wiped out at the split, however below shows what is technically possible if you look at the points gained through all 36 games.
Team A Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team B Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team C Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team D Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team E Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team F Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team G points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)
Team H Points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)

Promotion back to SPL would go to Team A B C D even although teams EFGH all gained 66 points through the course of the season.

If I am right in these calculations then this is even more shambolic than I first thought

Yes but E, F, G and H have been playing inferior teams for most of the season. I agree th eproposal is a shambles but the only way for it to work is to reset the points to 0.

dezz
09-01-2013, 13:14
Gordon Smith was on the bbc last night saying he put this idea forward 15 years ago but it wasn't given the time of day. I wonder whats changed

macdonsj
09-01-2013, 13:33
as i posted to a friend in Facebook

season 2 of the new format would be as well having Dungeons and Dragons dice to determine league position

Torque87
09-01-2013, 13:38
It's a farce, look at the SPL table right now, i'm sure Hearts are on level points with Dundee Utd but behind on goal difference. So that would mean that suddenly Hearts go back to 0 points and enter a relegation battle, whilst Dundee Utd continue to play for European places?


JOKE!

Valley Bluenose
09-01-2013, 13:44
To put your point in (hopefully) a slightly easier context:

Team Blue (shall we say!) play their first 22 SPL games and accumulate only 1 point. Team Green, on the other hand, have 23 points.

However, as a result of this miserable form both teams are in the bottom 4 of the SPL1. Then comes the split. As I understand it teams in the middle mini-league revert to 0 points as they are joined by the top four from SPL2.

Let’s say during the mini-league Team Blue and Team Green are fighting it out for the fourth spot in the mini-league and, hence, SPL1 security. Team Blue accumulate 24 points and Team Green 23 points.

Having finished fifth, Team Green is relegated to SPL2 despite, over the course of the season, gaining 46 points in comparison to Team Blue with 25 points.

Delbertz
09-01-2013, 13:51
Promotion back to SPL would go to Team A B C D even although teams EFGH all gained 66 points through the course of the season.

If I am right in these calculations then this is even more shambolic than I first thought

It's not a single season though it's two mini seasons.
To apply you flawed logic to the World Cup as a simple example.

Country A qualifies from World Cup group with 4 points.
Country B gets knocked out of the same World Cup group with 3 points.

But wait a minute, Country B qualified for the finals with 18 points, but Country A only qualified with 16 points.

Using your logic it is unfair that Counrty B got knocked out as it's combined points were 21 compared to Country A's 20 points.


Consider it a two separate competitions and there is NO issue with total points over the season.
There are many issues with this split idea, but this isn't one of them.

rockgirl
09-01-2013, 13:57
To put your point in (hopefully) a slightly easier context:

Team Blue (shall we say!) play their first 22 SPL games and accumulate only 1 point. Team Green, on the other hand, have 23 points.

However, as a result of this miserable form both teams are in the bottom 4 of the SPL1. Then comes the split. As I understand it teams in the middle mini-league revert to 0 points as they are joined by the top four from SPL2.
Let’s say during the mini-league Team Blue and Team Green are fighting it out for the fourth spot in the mini-league and, hence, SPL1 security. Team Blue accumulate 24 points and Team Green 23 points.

Having finished fifth, Team Green is relegated to SPL2 despite, over the course of the season, gaining 46 points in comparison to Team Blue with 25 points.

So I take it, it's just the middle 8 that revert back to 0 points?

scott13rangers
09-01-2013, 14:21
so does this mean there isnt a trophy for winning the new 2nd division

mc bulge
09-01-2013, 14:29
The more you read on this plan the more ridiculous it gets.

dalegordonstache
09-01-2013, 14:37
Gordon Smith was on the bbc last night saying he put this idea forward 15 years ago but it wasn't given the time of day. I wonder whats changed

I wouldnt be boasting about that if I were Gordon Smith!

All he seems to do these days is moan about people not listening to him in one job or the other or not knowing about this and that when he was in jobs.

The Gunslinger
09-01-2013, 14:41
Sorry for the long winded post but been sitting trying to work out this shambles of reconstruction and have come up with following. Am i right or wrong?

SPL teams at bottom of table
Team A Lose 22 games 0 Points
Team B Lose 20 Games Win 2 6 Points
Team C Lose 18 Games Win 4 12 Points
Team D Lose 16 games win 6 18 Points

SFL Teams at top table
Team E Win 22 Games 66 Points
Team F Win 20 Games Lose 2 60 Points
Team G Win 18 games lose 4 54 points
Team H Win 16 games lose 6 48 points

After Split
Team A Win 14 games 42 points
Team B Win 12 Games 36 points
Team C Win 10 Games 30 points
Team D Win 8 Games 24 Points
Team E Win 0 Lose 14Games 0 Points
Team F win 2 Lose 12 Fames 6 Points
Team G Win 4 Lose 10Games 12 points
Team H win 6 Lose 8 Games 18 Points
Teams ABCD all the teams that were “relegated” are promoted back to SPL 1 as points are wiped out at the split, however below shows what is technically possible if you look at the points gained through all 36 games.
Team A Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team B Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team C Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team D Points total for entire season 42 (promoted)
Team E Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team F Points total for entire season 66 (not promoted)
Team G points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)
Team H Points total for entire season 66 points (not promoted)

Promotion back to SPL would go to Team A B C D even although teams EFGH all gained 66 points through the course of the season.

If I am right in these calculations then this is even more shambolic than I first thought


your right but you are ignoring the fact that team e played diddys and team 1 played rangers and celtc etc.

The Gunslinger
09-01-2013, 14:44
this system may not be perfect but its clearly better than the current spl set up.

people seem to be ignoring that.