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Pep_x
27-04-2012, 19:33
According to rodent Chris

Chris McLaughlin ‏ @BBCchrismclaug

I believe #Rangers administrators think the Miller bid is financially worth more than the Knights bid. More to follow on #BBCSport

theswifts
27-04-2012, 19:34
sake:(:(:(:(:(

stevethebluenose90
27-04-2012, 19:34
How the **** does he know?

simplythebest
27-04-2012, 19:35
that bald twat doesnt even know what day it is.

bertram
27-04-2012, 19:35
Are D & P drip feeding to the meeja

Gardy Loyal
27-04-2012, 19:35
How does that paedo-faced rhat know?

Danny_1873
27-04-2012, 19:35
He would say that.

Pep_x
27-04-2012, 19:36
Paul Murray reckoned he had bid more whe he was on Sportsound now we get hit with this.

The nightmare continues.

dl2068
27-04-2012, 19:36
He's D&P tweeter
Millers bid more financially for the creditors

CPA Bluenose
27-04-2012, 19:36
I believe #Chris Mcaughlin actually knows feck all and is making shit up that he hopes is true.#

Cambyger
27-04-2012, 19:37
Duff and Duffer....WE DO NOT WANT MILLER....LOUD AND CLEAR

johnny v
27-04-2012, 19:37
He has been Duff and Phelps PR man from day dot.

Jimmy Bongo
27-04-2012, 19:38
If it was that great a bid, why not accept it?

Spicy-Chicken
27-04-2012, 19:38
Duff and Duffer....WE DO NOT WANT MILLER....LOUD AND CLEAR

dont think they can hear you mate :ninja:

jimbo 08
27-04-2012, 19:38
Why are d and f who are working for the rangers and their creditors drip feedingrangers hater

gramps1
27-04-2012, 19:39
The spl have to give sanctions for a newco then hopefully its the last we hear of miller

modfella
27-04-2012, 19:40
Is this going to drag on for ever for f uck sake? Get the deal done we want TBK it is the only real option.

TwoBadMice
27-04-2012, 19:40
Aww FFS Just No!!!

This could end in tears

GazzaB
27-04-2012, 19:41
If it was that great a bid, why not accept it?

^^Exactly^^

And they would've been named a preferred bidder on Monday. If D&P were so keen to get Miller in as preferred bidder, they would have by now.

WestendGer
27-04-2012, 19:41
thomson's love child.

bigwalter
27-04-2012, 19:43
saw this coming tbh, posted on one of the other threads I would be very surprised if the admins were referring to tbk bid when they said one was a better bid than the other

southsideblueblood
27-04-2012, 19:43
Miller will be chosen. Nothing else has gone right. That said I never say us managing the cva. No one in power wanted it to happen IMHO. Is now whether we have the nerve to go to div 3. The nightmare for me is that miller wins and then takes the sanctions as he more interested in money making than the football.

Don Roberto
27-04-2012, 19:43
Why are d and f who are working for the rangers and their creditors drip feedingrangers hater

Off shore payments into untraceable accounts,surely not though? >:)

DangerousDave
27-04-2012, 19:44
you ever get the feeling this is like bidding on ebay?everytime you fire a bid in,you still have to increase it.I think everytime a bid goes in,the admin are straight on to miller and tell him the bid to increase his

Pep_x
27-04-2012, 19:44
The spl have to give sanctions for a newco then hopefully its the last we hear of miller

Hopefully our enemies campaign for sanctions might just save us.

Linwoodloyalblue
27-04-2012, 19:44
Fans must let it be known we wont buy into Miller & co as owners so Delay and pause...get it done with TBK

jcdbluebear
27-04-2012, 19:45
If McLaughlin tweets a D+P story its come from D+P. Thats a worry.

Badger81
27-04-2012, 19:46
Goggle eyed freak won't hand his shares over to BK's and Kennedy so Millers will be only one on the table IMO.

big poppa
27-04-2012, 19:51
Thats just what we want isnt it?

A bunch of septic tanks with no history or connection to rangers.

There only interest will be to make money out of us like that walking abortion whyte.

If he gets prefered bider status the next two home games must be devoted to making it very clear ro miller to **** right off.

Mattl
27-04-2012, 19:53
Thats just what we want isnt it?

A bunch of septic tanks with no history or connection to rangers.

There only interest will be to make money out of us like that walking abortion whyte.

If he gets prefered bider status the next two home games must be devoted to making it very clear ro miller to **** right off.

If he gets preferred bidder status it will already be too late.

southsideblueblood
27-04-2012, 19:55
And there is sweet fa we can do. Murray the poison chalice that just keeps filling up.

portcam
27-04-2012, 20:03
I believe #Chris Mcaughlin actually knows feck all and is making shit up that he hopes is true.#

I believe I concur.

interbear
27-04-2012, 20:09
Bid probably worth more up front but creditors will get nothing as his plan is liquidation by another name. He knows it, we know it, and the admin know it but seem content to promote it as anything but. Which worries me, I still fear their end game is Miller and his associates.

BK/ TBK may be less up front but then more via CVA to the creditors over a period of time.

I know which one I prefer and it involves people who actually understand and care a damn about our football club (and I include Hibs supporting Kennedy in that).

BlueKidG
27-04-2012, 20:13
this guy has been there mouthpiece (and incidentally, or not, whytes aswell) since they came in.

if hes saying it, you can be sure the admins are thinking it.

marty101
27-04-2012, 20:27
The David Hillier boy is suggesting Miller's is a one off payment of more initially, but TBK are offering less up front with further ongoing installments for a few years


David Hillier‏@DavidHillier
Cant compare bids directly: Miller bid is all £11.2m now. TBK is CVA which is low amount now plus payments from future profits..

Pep_x
27-04-2012, 20:41
The David Hillier boy is suggesting Miller's is a one off payment of more initially, but TBK are offering less up front with further ongoing installments for a few years

.

Hopefully that is a glimmer of hope but i'm wary of the admins just wanting to push Millers bid through.

manfromdelmonte
27-04-2012, 20:44
For the benefit of anyone not sure the Bill Miller bid is American raz mitaz for a newco.
Bill Miller and Andrew Ellis will liquidate The Rangers and start a new company, cowboys

This is the guy who started off at about £20m for Sheffield wednesday and final bid ended up at £2m. They also tried to buy tranmere and asked owner of tranmere for a loan!

We as a support have to be cautious towards this bid , they are not Rangers people, they don't care about The Rangers .

Fan pressure is far more powerful than some believe , lets use ut bears.

Watp
sie

DEXAVIA
27-04-2012, 20:46
The involvement of Ellis should be enough for anyone.

jimmyhm
27-04-2012, 20:46
For the benefit of anyone not sure the Bill Miller bid is American raz mitaz for a newco.
Bill Miller and Andrew Ellis will liquidate The Rangers and start a new company, cowboys

This is the guy who started off at about £20m for Sheffield wednesday and final bid ended up at £2m. They also tried to buy tranmere and asked owner of tranmere for a loan!

We as a support have to be cautious towards this bid , they are not Rangers people, they don't care about The Rangers .

Fan pressure is far more powerful than some believe , lets use ut bears.

Watp
sie

Complete and utter rubbish.

St Matthew 18: 1-6
27-04-2012, 20:47
For the benefit of anyone not sure the Bill Miller bid is American raz mitaz for a newco.
Bill Miller and Andrew Ellis will liquidate The Rangers and start a new company, cowboys

This is the guy who started off at about £20m for Sheffield wednesday and final bid ended up at £2m. They also tried to buy tranmere and asked owner of tranmere for a loan!

We as a support have to be cautious towards this bid , they are not Rangers people, they don't care about The Rangers .

Fan pressure is far more powerful than some believe , lets use ut bears.

Watp
sie



Agreed MFDM

ME thinks the anger and rage directed at the SFA tomorrow may be turned on D&P soon.

Northampton_loyalist
27-04-2012, 20:47
How can it be more if it is still 11.2 mil? TBK's first bid was supposed to be 'double digit millions' and with Kennedy added to the mix can ony have increased...

HUMIE
27-04-2012, 20:49
The cant has got a 50/50 chance of being right so he's probably guessing

1988Ger
27-04-2012, 20:50
Complete and utter rubbish.

What part of that is rubbish? :confused:

stefanovitch
27-04-2012, 20:51
How can it be more if it is still 11.2 mil? TBK's first bid was supposed to be 'double digit millions' and with Kennedy added to the mix can ony have increased...

Kennedy's 2nd verbal offer was double digit millions but with TBK's now going without TicketUs I assume Kennedy's money replaces TicketUs.

RonBurgundy74
27-04-2012, 20:51
Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaugReply
Retweet

Miller still leads the race for #Rangers preferred bidder status. http://bbc.in/JriwcS

Whyme
27-04-2012, 20:52
A positive announcement for the Gers. Followed by this prick trying to taint the bid.

There's only one tainted thing, your lots ****ing league.

Diesel0412
27-04-2012, 20:52
Mclachlan saying millar leads the race still :(

bigkahunarab
27-04-2012, 20:53
Miller will go after the NewCo sanctions are known. It is his plan regardless of what is being said.

dl2068
27-04-2012, 20:54
Looks like Miller :(

BroxiBlue
27-04-2012, 20:56
If Tbks and Kennedy combined can't put in an offer worth more than Millers there is something far wrong.

GodSaveTheQueen
27-04-2012, 20:56
If what mclaughlin is reporting is true, the bond holders hold the key here to both bids. If they back TBKs it should be game on!

BobbyShearer
27-04-2012, 20:57
We MUST make sure we offer more for creditors.

We MUST.

I and the rest of us couldn't give a flying f.uck if we have 8k to spend on players for the next 3 years, as long as the club is ours.

I really, really hope TBK know what they're doing here.

Offering most to the creditors, whether 20bob or 4mil will legally guarantee a position regardless of how bent d&p may be.

TheKillerToad
27-04-2012, 20:57
Chris McLaughlin‏@BBCchrismclaugReply
Retweet

Miller still leads the race for #Rangers preferred bidder status. http://bbc.in/JriwcS

Hold on a second this bit is interesting

"Both bids depend on taking the club's bond holders' debt, around £7m, out of a Company Voluntary Arrangement."

The club bond holders will therefore have a massive say will they not?

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 20:57
Surely the debenture holders can refuse to work with Miller?

GodSaveTheQueen
27-04-2012, 21:00
Surely the debenture holders can refuse to work with Miller?

Exactly. They hold the key to this and could swing it the way of TBKs.

Pep_x
27-04-2012, 21:01
BBC Scotland understands that Bill Miller's bid for Rangers is worth significantly more than the Blue Knights and Brian Kennedy's.

The Blue Knights' Paul Murray told BBC Scotland on Friday evening that he believes his joint bid with Sale Sharks owner Kennedy outbids the American's.

Both bids depend on taking the club's bond holders' debt, around £7m, out of a Company Voluntary Arrangement.

But it is thought the Knights' bid uses that figure as part of its offer.

Adminstrators Duff & Phelps said "neither bid involves liquidation of the football club".

And they added that there were "significant differences between the two offers in terms of a prospective return to creditors and approach to future funding and these have to be evaluated".

Rangers sold thousands of debentures to fund the construction of the Club Deck at Ibrox Stadium in the early 1990s.

Supporters paid sums of about £1,100 to £1,600, which guaranteed the right to take out a season ticket on that seat and offered them some extra benefits.

Ticketus, who funded Whyte's takeover of the Ibrox club last year and had been part of the Blue Knights group, earlier in the day withdrew their commitment to funding a takeover bid.

The London firm was put off by the uncertainty over the club's future in the wake of a 12-month transfer ban relating to charges of Scottish FA rule breaches, a ruling Rangers are expected to appeal, and potential changes to Scottish Premier League rules.

Murray and Kennedy negotiated a partnership and a statement on behalf of the duo read: "This offer we consider to be substantial.

"[The offer] is conditional on a CVA being approved by the creditors, and Mr [Craig] Whyte's shares being acquired."

Murray and Kennedy added: "We hope this is accepted so that we may proceed with due diligence forthwith and make a start to the task of re-building Rangers Football Club of 1872. "

Kennedy had an initial bid rejected and was told his most recent verbal offer was not acceptable by the club's administrators while the Blue Knights and Miller have been trying to achieve preferred bidder status.

Speaking on BBC Radio Scotland's Sportsound, Murray said: "I've been talking to Brian every day for the last three months. We have built up a good relationship.

"I respected his decision to bid on his own but it was very clear that he was very much a kindred spirit in terms of wanting to help the club

"He also has a lot of experience in owning sporting clubs and I think that experience plus his business acumen is a great combination.

"That combination with the rest of the guys is a powerful cocktail."

Miller and the Blue Knights/Kennedy must now wait to hear from Duff & Phelps which of them has been given the nod to proceed to a period of due diligence.

"Time is of the essence. It really is now pretty critical," added Murray, a former Rangers director.

"We are running up against unbelievable time pressures. It's getting to the point where it is a real issue."

Asked about the value of his joint bid compared to truck tycoon Miller's bid of £11.2m, Murray said: "If what Bill Miller has said is accurate, we believe it is worth more than that.

"This is more than just about money; I think this is about philosophy as well.

"We have been very clear that a CVA is the only thing the supporters want.

"Speaking as a supporter, I do not want the club's timeline has been broken."

Murray's bid is not only conditional on a CVA being approved; it depends on owner Craig Whyte's 85% shareholding being acquired, either by Ticketus, who are owed almost £27m, or the administrators.

"On the assumption that 75% of the value of those creditors vote for it, then the CVA becomes effective," said Murray.

"There is then a 28 day cooling-off period where people can request more information.

"Ticketus have a lot of financial leverage over Craig Whyte.

"I expect them to be positive on the CVA and I expect them to deliver the shares as well."

Things look bleak.

isawthat
27-04-2012, 21:02
According to rodent Chris

Chris McLaughlin ‏ @BBCchrismclaug

I believe #Rangers administrators think the Miller bid is financially worth more than the Knights bid. More to follow on #BBCSport

Of course it's worth more. He is being fed the information of what's required via Admin to Ellis To Whyte to Miller.

Ask yourself, why is Millers bid always the last to go in.

We are being treated as mugs.

Cardross Bear
27-04-2012, 21:06
As title, see below....

http://t.co/GoAV3ezx


27 April 2012 Last updated at 20:39

Share this page 436ShareFacebookTwitter.
print..Rangers: Miller's bid worth more than Blue Knights & Kennedy's
By Chris McLaughlin
Senior Football Reporter, BBC Scotland BBC Scotland understands that Bill Miller's bid for Rangers is worth significantly more than the Blue Knights and Brian Kennedy's.

The Blue Knights' Paul Murray told BBC Scotland on Friday evening that he believes his joint bid with Sale Sharks owner Kennedy outbids the American's.

Both bids depend on taking the club's bond holders' debt, around £7m, out of a Company Voluntary Arrangement.

But it is thought the Knights' bid uses that figure as part of its offer.

Adminstrators Duff & Phelps said "neither bid involves liquidation of the football club".

And they added that there were "significant differences between the two offers in terms of a prospective return to creditors and approach to future funding and these have to be evaluated".

Rangers sold thousands of debentures to fund the construction of the Club Deck at Ibrox Stadium in the early 1990s.

Supporters paid sums of about £1,100 to £1,600, which guaranteed the right to take out a season ticket on that seat and offered them some extra benefits.

Ticketus, who funded Whyte's takeover of the Ibrox club last year and had been part of the Blue Knights group, earlier in the day withdrew their commitment to funding a takeover bid.

The London firm was put off by the uncertainty over the club's future in the wake of a 12-month transfer ban relating to charges of Scottish FA rule breaches, a ruling Rangers are expected to appeal, and potential changes to Scottish Premier League rules.

Murray and Kennedy negotiated a partnership and a statement on behalf of the duo read: "This offer we consider to be substantial.

"[The offer] is conditional on a CVA being approved by the creditors, and Mr [Craig] Whyte's shares being acquired."

Murray and Kennedy added: "We hope this is accepted so that we may proceed with due diligence forthwith and make a start to the task of re-building Rangers Football Club of 1872. "

Rangers in administration
•Process began on 14 February
•Club deducted 10 SPL points
•Players and management agreed wage cuts to enable season's fixtures to be fulfilled
•Deadline for securing Uefa licence was missed but club have applied to play in Europe next season
•Celtic confirmed as SPL champions on 7 April
•Rangers 11 points clear of third-place Motherwell with four games to play

Kennedy had an initial bid rejected and was told his most recent verbal offer was not acceptable by the club's administrators while the Blue Knights and Miller have been trying to achieve preferred bidder status.

Speaking on BBC Radio Scotland's Sportsound, Murray said: "I've been talking to Brian every day for the last three months. We have built up a good relationship.

"I respected his decision to bid on his own but it was very clear that he was very much a kindred spirit in terms of wanting to help the club

"He also has a lot of experience in owning sporting clubs and I think that experience plus his business acumen is a great combination.

"That combination with the rest of the guys is a powerful cocktail."

Miller and the Blue Knights/Kennedy must now wait to hear from Duff & Phelps which of them has been given the nod to proceed to a period of due diligence.

"Time is of the essence. It really is now pretty critical," added Murray, a former Rangers director.

"We are running up against unbelievable time pressures. It's getting to the point where it is a real issue."

Asked about the value of his joint bid compared to truck tycoon Miller's bid of £11.2m, Murray said: "If what Bill Miller has said is accurate, we believe it is worth more than that.

"This is more than just about money; I think this is about philosophy as well.

"We have been very clear that a CVA is the only thing the supporters want.

"Speaking as a supporter, I do not want the club's timeline has been broken."

Murray's bid is not only conditional on a CVA being approved; it depends on owner Craig Whyte's 85% shareholding being acquired, either by Ticketus, who are owed almost £27m, or the administrators.

"On the assumption that 75% of the value of those creditors vote for it, then the CVA becomes effective," said Murray.

"There is then a 28 day cooling-off period where people can request more information.

"Ticketus have a lot of financial leverage over Craig Whyte.

"I expect them to be positive on the CVA and I expect them to deliver the shares as well."

Also relate

Mr T1
27-04-2012, 21:06
Millar will go through the motions of trying to get a CVA he will reach an impasse, liquidate the oldco so we are left with the newco.

There will be no "merger"

AnglianBear
27-04-2012, 21:08
Let's say an offer comes in to buy Steven Naismith from Celtic. They offer him £100,000 a week. He also gets an offer from Man Utd of £75,000 a week. Yes, Celtic have offered more money, but that doesnt mean it's a better deal for Steven does it...

pentlandpeat
27-04-2012, 21:08
They know feck all. How could they?

BobbyShearer
27-04-2012, 21:08
If the above is true, why the f.uck is the bondholders 7mil included?

Days to get this sorted, days to get an already outlined bid trumped?? And it still looks like being a Fu.ckup?
I'm on the verge of self-harming here-Fu.ck me!!!!

bigwalter
27-04-2012, 21:10
The last 2 sentences sound very promising but unfortunately we won't find out as miller will get named as preferred bidder

Cardross Bear
27-04-2012, 21:10
They know feck all. How could they?

Wishfull thinking, that's what i thought when i read it.

DEXAVIA
27-04-2012, 21:10
Both bids depend on taking the club's bond holders' debt, around £7m, out of a Company Voluntary Arrangement.

But it is thought the Knights' bid uses that figure as part of its offer

Possibly a way for bond holders to apply some pressure?

Stuart_WATP
27-04-2012, 21:11
How much is this guy Miller worth anyway? It's looking increasingly likely he will be our next owner, best to find out more about him now

BobbyShearer
27-04-2012, 21:11
As I've said above, we(TBK) have had days to get our sh.it together and gazump an already outlined bid.
It's akin to trying to buy a house, your only rival saying they're bidding 300k andyou taking a week to end up being outbid. Ffs.

bigy
27-04-2012, 21:12
If the cva rate is for all shareholders, how can bondholders just be ignored? If they can be ignored then they can be ignored by both.

ally-c
27-04-2012, 21:15
Make it known tomorrow at the protest who we want

tacneb21
27-04-2012, 21:15
Not good news, "DO NOT" want Miller as prospective bidder.

Fisher23
27-04-2012, 21:15
I can't believe some Bears are taking McLaughlins word on this. One thing I have learned through out this is trust no one. Lets wait and see what develops. We know how quickly things can change.

jackdaniels78
27-04-2012, 21:17
Get the feeling miller waited for the TBK bid then upped his just enough to get the pb status.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 21:18
I thought Miller put his one in first?

Cardross Bear
27-04-2012, 21:18
Not good news, "DO NOT" want Miller as prospective bidder.

Gaz you mean "preferred", you been on the vod? What time on Sunday?

Blue Tack
27-04-2012, 21:22
It's win win win for whyte,d&p and miller.

Grant K
27-04-2012, 21:22
Bottom line, it is D&P responsibility to accept the best deal, as they see it, for the creditors and the business going forward. They will not allow sentiment to become involved and will base their judgement on value to creditors and the sustainability of the business model being promotted, rather than they are supporters and they come from America. This is in our best interests as we want to know that what is being suggested by both parties will stand up over a period of time. I could not go through this again and retain my sanity.

We do not know the details of the deals and on that basis can only speculate. What we do know is that neither deal involves liquidation, again good news. Please do not see the word newco and presume Liquidation, it is just an alternative strategy to the pay down of a CVA and would require the agreement of the creditors as part of the CVA to remove the assets to a newco. The value to creditors in both plans will be based upon a going concern having more worth and a Liquidation.

I don't know which is the better offer and want what is best to take us out of the mess in as structured a manner as possible. Wouldn't it be nice to be discussing football again!

The progress today is the best news we have heard for sometime and we now have options if the first deal is not acceptable to creditors.

rangers for life
27-04-2012, 21:23
After being on a high earlier with bainer's updates to log back onto to this news is depressing.

Strickland Banks
27-04-2012, 21:24
Both bids depend on taking the club's bond holders' debt, around £7m, out of a Company Voluntary Arrangement.

But it is thought the Knights' bid uses that figure as part of its offer

Possibly a way for bond holders to apply some pressure?

Exactly. Message to bondholders, tell Bill Miller to get to f.u.c.k

Clark
27-04-2012, 21:24
I'm still fearing the worst that Miller gets us.

RFC_Sooty
27-04-2012, 21:25
If he is offering more then he will get the nod.

okeydokey505
27-04-2012, 21:26
They are hoping ;)

Or D&P have a mole :eek:

williewoodburn
27-04-2012, 21:27
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAmsterdamLive View Post
Surely the debenture holders can refuse to work with Miller?

Exactly. They hold the key to this and could swing it the way of TBKs.

Surely the debenture holders will have to be consulted. How can decisions be taken without any input from them or are they regarded an irrelevance due to being unsecured creditors.

But, 'buying' the debenture holders support by maintaining their status quo removes £7m from the creditors list.

jackdaniels78
27-04-2012, 21:27
It sounds to me that TBK are trying to get us out through the cva by paying a lot of the debt back over a period of time. Miller bid may be worth more initially because he does not care if the creditors reject the cva and is paying a one of fee for the assets.

strider
27-04-2012, 21:28
I might not be quite getting this correct, so apologies for any mistakes, but don't Duff and Phelps stand to make more from the Miller bid for themselves?

If I'm right about his intentions, he plans on a temporary newco whilst the "original" club stays in administration and works their way out. It sounds like he'd be expecting D&P to do that.

From a purely self-serving perspective, isn't he always going to be "in front"?

dl2068
27-04-2012, 21:28
Yes, looks like Ellis and Miller and!

dougiethebear
27-04-2012, 21:28
The last 2 sentences sound very promising but unfortunately we won't find out as miller will get named as preferred bidder

I hate to say mate but I think your spot on with your views.

tacneb21
27-04-2012, 21:31
Gaz you mean "preferred", you been on the vod? What time on Sunday?

lol.
how does 5.30 sound?
R u going 2mora?

Dede' Arneaux
27-04-2012, 21:32
Dont Believe A Word

Thin Lizzy Loyal

deano1981
27-04-2012, 21:32
Are TBK's and Brian Kennedy finished, or could they come back with an improved offer?
Also.... would it be an idea to get Miller's email address and bombard him with emails, letting him know that we're not interested in what he has to offer, and we'll not renew our season tickets, or spend any money on the Gers if he takes over?

Ballymena_Loyal
27-04-2012, 21:35
Why can miller not **** off? No one wants the bastard

Tagsbear
27-04-2012, 21:37
They know feck all. How could they?

Of course they know, D&P sing like canary's to the press via mediahouse.

I hate to say it but they are going to pick Miller, its so obvious, they are acting like his PR rather than administrators

cw3038
27-04-2012, 21:39
Think I'm understanding this....at last

Cardross Bear
27-04-2012, 21:40
Why can miller not **** off? No one wants the bastard

Not entirely true, D & P, Whyte & Ellis do >:)>:)>:)

turrabear
27-04-2012, 21:41
Why can miller not **** off? No one wants the bastard

if only it was that easy.

Gavman
27-04-2012, 21:42
I don't see what is all bad about his bid. The man is simply putting a back-up plan in place incase liquidation does happen. He said it wasn't his preffered option but it's good to have a plan in place incase it does happen.

buffaloskinners
27-04-2012, 21:43
how would the bbc know ? .

kennyg_kirkieloyal
27-04-2012, 21:44
How did Bill Miller find out about Rangers he isnt a football fan?

RFC_Sooty
27-04-2012, 21:44
I don't see what is all bad about his bid. The man is simply putting a back-up plan in place incase liquidation does happen. He said it wasn't his preffered option but it's good to have a plan in place incase it does happen.

Isn't he a nice old man.

manfromdelmonte
27-04-2012, 21:45
Complete and utter rubbish.
Thanks for that imput .

imalive1690
27-04-2012, 21:45
I don't see what is all bad about his bid. The man is simply putting a back-up plan in place incase liquidation does happen. He said it wasn't his preffered option but it's good to have a plan in place incase it does happen.

Do you still believe Whyte when he says he acted in our best interests?

Your either very naive or stupid maybe both.

bighuggybear
27-04-2012, 21:45
The American Whyte.

Wolf Larsen
27-04-2012, 21:46
Bill Miller is not in this for the love of Rangers. He is in this to make money. And just how is he going to make money from Rangers? There is only one way that I can see and that is why we don't want him anywhere near the club.

RFC_Sooty
27-04-2012, 21:46
Complete and utter rubbish.

Are you just putting up that or are you bothering to explain your thoughts?

Dougie Gray
27-04-2012, 21:47
Complete and utter rubbish.

Typical troll nonsense from you.

Prove your assertion.

MasterC
27-04-2012, 21:48
If he is offering more then he will get the nod.

If he is offering more, and it is all up front rather than a payment over a few years then HMRC are more likely to accept a CVA.

If it is true that TBK want to offer less up front, and then pay more over time HMRC are more likely to block that.

I posted a link to my reasons for saying that elsewhere.

I do not think that is best for Rangers, I do not want it to happen. I am simply being realistic.

bigwalter
27-04-2012, 21:49
the worrying thing is he has actually disguised everything well enough to con some of our fans already :eek:

he does not want a cva, he wants to liquidate us! he will most likely offer a cva that has no chance of egtting accepted and then say he had no choice but to liquidate us

thebluenosebear
27-04-2012, 21:49
He has been very open about wanting the property, he is simply not interested in the football side of things and what I believe you'll find is a guy who cleans up the debt puts the club up for sale minus murray park and the stadium which he'll lease back to us after the clubs been sold on again.

With Kennedy now joining the Blue knights it has to be the way forward, i still have questions about Paul Murrays involvement with flim flam but thats for another day, Kennedy & the knights need to win for the good of Rangers IMVHO

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 21:49
Miller has clearly outlined that his plans do not involve liquidation, and I'm inclined to believe him. Liquidation would incur footballing penalties that would mean the club would not run at a profit. So what's in it for him?

RFC_Sooty
27-04-2012, 21:50
Miller has clearly outlined that his plans do not involve liquidation, and I'm inclined to believe him. Liquidation would incur footballing penalties that would mean the club would not run at a profit. So what's in it for him?

Why was he demanding assurances from the SPL/SFA that their wouldn't be penalties for a newco?


When did he clearly outline that?

mwell_ger
27-04-2012, 21:51
The American Whyte.

Exactly, he is out to strip the assets and make a quid few quid.

Earl of Leven
27-04-2012, 21:52
Club 9 Sport wanted Sheffield Wed for £2m and then said that they'd be charging £300,000 a year admin fees for 5 years.

Gavman
27-04-2012, 21:52
Do you still believe Whyte when he says he acted in our best interests?

Your either very naive or stupid maybe both.

not everyone will be like him. the man may just genuinley want to save the club. You're only working off your assumptions. I wait for the facts, that may make me stupid to you.

MasterC
27-04-2012, 21:52
If the Miller bid involves transferring the assets to another company then the existing company will have no purpose and be wound up.

That is liquidation, however anyone tries to dress it up.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 21:52
Why was he demanding assurances from the SPL/SFA that their wouldn't be penalties for a newco?


When did he clearly outline that?
I'd imagine because at the time all bids had to have a plan for liquidation too, even The Blue Knights.

He clearly outlined in his statement, and it has been outlined several times since then, most recently tonight by Duff and Phelps. I thought you would have read that.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 21:53
If the Miller bid involves transferring the assets to another company then the existing company will have no purpose and be wound up.

That is liquidation, however anyone tries to dress it up.

What makes you think that?

kennyg_kirkieloyal
27-04-2012, 21:53
not everyone will be like him. the man may just genuinley want to save the club. You're only working off your assumptions. I wait for the facts, that may make me stupid to you.

The facts have been posted on this forum weeks ago

Mr T1
27-04-2012, 21:54
I don't see what is all bad about his bid. The man is simply putting a back-up plan in place incase liquidation does happen. He said it wasn't his preffered option but it's good to have a plan in place incase it does happen.

Its not a back-up plan.

That's how he is selling it!

Once he transfers the assets to the newco they will not be going back to the oldco. He will go through the motions of ntrying to get a CVA before liquidating the oldco.

He will have bought the assets for £11.2m to do with what he likes.

Craig Whyte will walk away with most of it after the administrators have been paid.

This leaves Ticketus to try and get their money back from Whyte. They may even reach some out of court settlement to minimise their loss. One thing for sure is Whyte, the scumbag that he is, will come out of it with a few more million on top of the money has already siphoned out the club.

That's my prediction anyway.:mad:

RFC_Sooty
27-04-2012, 21:55
I'd imagine because at the time all bids had to have a plan for liquidation too, even The Blue Knights.

He clearly outlined in his statement, and it has been outlined several times since then, most recently tonight by Duff and Phelps. I thought you would have read that.

I have read it, thanks for checking. You said he clearly outlined liquidation wasn't on the cards.

Porto Bear
27-04-2012, 21:55
Complete and utter rubbish.

Well obviously you know something others don't feel free to share.:roll:

thebluenosebear
27-04-2012, 21:55
not everyone will be like him. the man may just genuinley want to save the club. You're only working off your assumptions. I wait for the facts, that may make me stupid to you.

Why?

Why would an american with no links at all, not a football fan and never been to a gers game want a club nobody bid on for 2 years.

Why?

bobans27
27-04-2012, 21:56
I think alot of folk have made their mind up about this guy without knowing his real plans.

After Whyte, you cant really blame anyone for being a little sceptical of an 'outsider'. At least with Paul Murray, we know he's a Rangers supporter with (hopefully) the good of the club at his ambition.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 21:57
I have read it, thanks for checking. You said he clearly outlined liquidation wasn't on the cards.

And he has.

bighuggybear
27-04-2012, 22:01
not everyone will be like him. the man may just genuinley want to save the club. You're only working off your assumptions. I wait for the facts, that may make me stupid to you.

Come on gavman,why would this guy genuinely want to save us,I would put money on that this guy had never heard of us before till Ellis told him there is money to made here.
He has no ties to our club,never been interested in football,lives on the other side of the world,he is just in this to make money and what happens to us will not even enter his head.

Saltire-Stevie
27-04-2012, 22:04
Mclaughlan is being used by the admins to drip out their angle ... He has had their take on things the whole way through ..... They want miller to win this and its clear they are using mclaughlan to promote the miller bid ...... I fear we wont get what we want and need ... Which is a BK/BK run club ....:(

Mr T1
27-04-2012, 22:05
And he has.

You need to be a bit smarter than taking his word for it.

If there is anything we should have learnt after the Whyte fiasco then this is it!

alpha
27-04-2012, 22:06
I think alot of folk have made their mind up about this guy without knowing his real plans.

After Whyte, you cant really blame anyone for being a little sceptical of an 'outsider'. At least with Paul Murray, we know he's a Rangers supporter with (hopefully) the good of the club at his ambition.

You can't really blame them can you:confused:

TBK is the only way IMO

PartickGer
27-04-2012, 22:07
The club's finished and this whole charade has been a stitch up if this chancer is allowed to own our club.

MasterC
27-04-2012, 22:07
What makes you think that?

If the old company had no assets what would it do, what would it's purpose be as a business.

That's just standard practice when all of the assets are transferred elsewhere, simply wind up the old company. It does away with all of the debt it holds, because it doesn't exist any more.

Let me ask you. What would be the point in keeping a company alive, with no assets and £40m debt.

Finbar OFfended
27-04-2012, 22:09
it never ceases to amaze me

positive story about The Rangers

Rodent McLaughlin is on twitter moments later with a negative story to counter it. It's so predictible I almost feel bad for the slimy ****

Pep_x
27-04-2012, 22:11
How do the players contracts get moved to a incubator co while we are under a transfer embargo.


Rangers should only be owned by Rangers supporters.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 22:12
If the old company had no assets what would it do, what would it's purpose be as a business.

That's just standard practice when all of the assets are transferred elsewhere, simply wind up the old company. It does away with all of the debt it holds, because it doesn't exist any more.

Let me ask you. What would be the point in keeping a company alive, with no assets and £40m debt.

Because keeping that company alive and merging it not only saves our history, but it means that the club won't be party to European penalties that would see it run at a loss. Let me ask you this, why would Miller buy us if he intended to run us at a loss?

This may actually make things easier for TBK to deal with Whyte now. He will be shitting himself if Miller takes over and liquidates, as you say he will. Whyte will then be subject to investigation and jail time.

newlandsmac
27-04-2012, 22:14
It is as clear as the nose on your face, D&D are spinning us all a line until the Monday after the end of the season, when they will pull the plug and go with Miller.

They talk about it not meaning the liquidation of the club, but that means they will keep the existing company whilst they sell the club and history to Miller's incubator. And it will be signed and sealed on 14 May, when they think they are safe from us. They will then hold on to our club and try to agree a deal with CW and HMRC, whilst going to court over Collyer Bristow.

In fact it seems we will never get the existing company back on that basis.

Earl of Leven
27-04-2012, 22:14
why the f*** would he simply want to save the Rangers?

We really have to stop being stop so f***ing stupid.

AngryMagot
27-04-2012, 22:15
**** off miller we don't want you here !!!

Blantyre
27-04-2012, 22:16
I think we all need to remember the conditions attached to Bill Millers bid, he is seeking unrealstic assurances from the SFA etc, imo they will not be granted as the SFA and most likely the SPL too, are hellbent on pushing through these new sanctions. In the event that these assurances and conditions are not met, Bill Miller won't proceed leaving only TBK.

MasterC
27-04-2012, 22:17
Because keeping that company alive and merging it not only saves our history, but it means that the club won't be party to European penalties that would see it run at a loss. Let me ask you this, why would Miller buy us if he intended to run us at a loss?

This may actually make things easier for TBK to deal with Whyte now. He will be shitting himself if Miller takes over and liquidates, as you say he will. Whyte will then be subject to investigation and jail time.

How would this company exit administration.

Here's your option.

Pay all debts in full
Agree a CVA with your creditors (after having paid administrator, statutory payments etc)
Liquidation.

Or can you tell me another way, I have asked elsewhere.

Earl of Leven
27-04-2012, 22:18
10.12pm and not one attempt to explain an 'incubator company' and why it isn't the same as a pre-pack liquidation.

Surely if it's a great idea you'll be able to lay it all out for us....

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 22:18
How would this company exit administration.

Here's your option.

Pay all debts in full
Agree a CVA with your creditors (after having paid administrator, statutory payments etc)
Liquidation.

Or can you tell me another way, I have asked elsewhere.
Miller has already said the company would exit via a CVA.

Teddyjohn
27-04-2012, 22:19
Miller will be made preferred bidder even if TBK bid was worth more. D+P are as dodgy as Whyte et al.

Earl of Leven
27-04-2012, 22:19
I would imagine he's talking sh** though.

But a 65 year old 'turnaround specialist' who doesn't like football might just fancy running us on a shoestring budget for a decade.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 22:19
10.12pm and not one attempt to explain an 'incubator company' and why it isn't the same as a pre-pack liquidation.

Surely if it's a great idea you'll be able to lay it all out for us....

I think everyone here is backing The Blue Knights, but some of the ignorance about Millers bid is unbelievable.

It is not a newco, the oldco is not liquidated. Miller is not stupid, if he makes it a newco the club will run at a loss for the next 3 years with no CL football.

Millers bid is not a disaster, but TBK's is preferable. Millers will not break the line.

Teddyjohn
27-04-2012, 22:20
Miller has already said the company would exit via a CVA.

Then split the company and merge with a newco.

Miller wants liquidation, he is just skipping around it.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 22:21
Then split the company and merge with a newco.

Miller wants liquidation, he is just skipping around it.

He never said anything about splitting the company. He will merge it with the newco, therefore diluting Whytes shares to under 50%.

Miller does not want liquidation, or otherwise he wouldn't be able to gain control of the club. Why would Whyte sell the assets to someone who wants liquidation?

MasterC
27-04-2012, 22:21
Miller has already said the company would exit via a CVA.

So why fanny about.

Buy the club, agree a CVA, come out of administration.

What's all the nonsense about moving assets to an "incubator" blah blah blah about.

thegodfather
27-04-2012, 22:22
dont think they can hear you mate :ninja:

Don`t think they give much of a f uck one way or the other :(

Tagsbear
27-04-2012, 22:23
Because keeping that company alive and merging it not only saves our history, but it means that the club won't be party to European penalties that would see it run at a loss. Let me ask you this, why would Miller buy us if he intended to run us at a loss?

This may actually make things easier for TBK to deal with Whyte now. He will be shitting himself if Miller takes over and liquidates, as you say he will. Whyte will then be subject to investigation and jail time.

The other company will be liquidated if he wins, not straight away, but eventually, there is little or no chance of a merger .

Your second point is interesting, maybe the admin are calling Whytes bluff and attempting to pressure him to deal with TBK, doubtful, but a straw to cling to.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 22:24
So why fanny about.

Buy the club, agree a CVA, come out of administration.

What's all the nonsense about moving assets to an "incubator" blah blah blah about.

Because with everything in the other club, we can negotiate a lower price of CVA due to the oldco having no assets to flog off in the event of liquidation.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 22:26
The other company will be liquidated if he wins, not straight away, but eventually, there is little or no chance of a merger .

Your second point is interesting, maybe the admin are calling Whytes bluff and attempting to pressure him to deal with TBK, doubtful, but a straw to cling to.

Seriously? Despite all the arguments I've put against you, you just say "Nah, it'll get liquidated." Without even a reasonable train of thought.

I'm backing TBK as much as anyone but that is just ridiculous.

RFC_Sooty
27-04-2012, 22:30
Is NewAmsterdamLive the spin guy for Miller who trawled the Sheff Wed and Tranmere forums or is he just a naive young 'un?


I can't decide what to put my money on. It's certainly good fun either way.

Rap01
27-04-2012, 22:30
If the cva rate is for all shareholders, how can bondholders just be ignored? If they can be ignored then they can be ignored by both.

Have to assume that the blue knights bid expects bond holders will a) vote for the CVA and b) write off their payment in return for having their seating rights retained.

Don't see that Miller cares what the bond holders want as all he is looking for is a sale of assets so bond holders just end up in the CVA pot anyway. In theory if he did want the OldCo to achieve a CVA then they'd need to vote yes but does anyone really think he cares what happens after he gets his hands on us?

Tagsbear
27-04-2012, 22:31
Seriously? Despite all the arguments I've put against you, you just say "Nah, it'll get liquidated." Without even a reasonable train of thought.

I'm backing TBK as much as anyone but that is just ridiculous.

Leeds went a similar route, it is newco dressed up, in my opinion, and others I have read it is liquidation, with a small l, butthe same thing none the less.

MasterC
27-04-2012, 22:32
Because with everything in the other club, we can negotiate a lower price of CVA due to the oldco having no assets to flog off in the event of liquidation.

You do know we have laws in this country, and removing assets from a legal entity in order not to pay tax bills is contrary to them.

Are you seriously suggesting that creditors (including HMRC) will accept a CVA at a lower level because the company has quite openly moved the assets elsewhere. Then sit back whilst the assets are moved back into the original company.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 22:33
Leeds went a similar route, it is newco dressed up, in my opinion, and others I have read it is liquidation, with a small l, butthe same thing none the less.

And once again, Leeds were not liquidated.

NewAmsterdamLive
27-04-2012, 22:35
You do know we have laws in this country, and removing assets from a legal entity in order not to pay tax bills is contrary to them.

Are you seriously suggesting that creditors (including HMRC) will accept a CVA at a lower level because the company has quite openly moved the assets elsewhere. Then sit back whilst the assets are moved back into the original company.

What does removing assets to pay tax bills have to do with a CVA price arrangement with creditors?

They won't have a choice. They can liquidate it if they like, but this will only mean they end up with absolutely nothing since there will be no assets to flog.

Rap01
27-04-2012, 22:42
What does removing assets to pay tax bills have to do with a CVA price arrangement with creditors?

They won't have a choice. They can liquidate it if they like, but this will only mean they end up with absolutely nothing since there will be no assets to flog.

Wish people would stop with the "liquidation means creditors get nothing" nonsense.

They'll get their share of the £11.2million.

LanarkshireBlue
27-04-2012, 23:19
Wish people would stop with the "liquidation means creditors get nothing" nonsense.

They'll get their share of the £11.2million.

I wonder where the Yank is getting his £11.2M from?

Pound to a penny it'll be borrowed money the club will have to pay back.

TN8
27-04-2012, 23:23
Well in that case I genuinely hope the SPL clubs vote on Monday to f*ck a Newco all ways for the next 3 years.

Jordan-rtid
27-04-2012, 23:24
I think theyll give the blue knights pb status cos if they gave it to Miller then there would be a lot of hassle at least I hope tbks get it anyway.

MasterC
27-04-2012, 23:26
What does removing assets to pay tax bills have to do with a CVA price arrangement with creditors?

They won't have a choice. They can liquidate it if they like, but this will only mean they end up with absolutely nothing since there will be no assets to flog.

Nonsense like you post just distracts people from serious discussion

I'm out.

bigbilly62
28-04-2012, 00:16
it would allways be the rangers

big poppa
28-04-2012, 00:30
Well in that case I genuinely hope the SPL clubs vote on Monday to f*ck a Newco all ways for the next 3 years.

This.

Then miller can **** off.

dereksmallsloyal
28-04-2012, 00:35
Well in that case I genuinely hope the SPL clubs vote on Monday to f*ck a Newco all ways for the next 3 years.

Agreed - and I actually think its right as well. If we can get a CVA, its still the same club and should face no further charges, if it can come to an agreement with creditors.

If not, a newco can't just be dropped in without some penalty - the Div 3 route would actually be correct.

Art Vandelay
28-04-2012, 00:37
Well in that case I genuinely hope the SPL clubs vote on Monday to f*ck a Newco all ways for the next 3 years.

I really hope this happens.

Any Newco in to Division 3 and a 9000 point penalty would hopefully chase this ****.