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ibrox40
08-03-2012, 19:38
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option?oldid=0

If heavy penalties are imposed by the SPL, for example 15-20 points deduction for 3 seasons and no qualification allowed for Europe. Should we leave the SPL and drop down to Div 3?

It would destroy the SPL and a few clubs with it. The SKY deal would be null and void and the SPL a laughing stock, Celtic probably winning every year by 30 - 40 points.

It would be tough on us too, vastly lower quality of squad, smaller crowds, decreased revenue, probably not able to maintain running costs for Auchenhowie. Massive hit on UEFA coefficient both for us personally and Scotland overall.

When we returned 3-4 years the SPL would be destroyed along with some teams if it survived that long. But it would also provide a big cash boost for the Div1 - Div3. Also we'd be free to have our own TV deal such as streaming our games on Rangers TV for say £10 per month.

But it could force a revamp of the league before it came to any of this.
Its shows that if they **** with us we'll bring the whole house of cards down with us, as per the title.

So yes or no?

RangersFC23
08-03-2012, 19:48
The no European football for 3 seasons thing is not a punishment per se. UEFA's own rules state that to play in their competitions, clubs must have played at least three seasons of football in their own domestic leagues. Since we'd technically be a new club post-liquidation, we would not meet the criteria required to participate for three years.

ibrox40
08-03-2012, 19:52
The no European football for 3 seasons thing is not a punishment per se. UEFA's own rules state that to play in their competitions, clubs must have played at least three seasons of football in their own domestic leagues. Since we'd technically be a new club post-liquidation, we would not meet the criteria required to participate for three years.

Yes but are you happy to be hamstrung by Lawell and all, ie keeping us alive to keep the cash coming in but castrated so we'd never be a serious threat.

Larkie_Deek
08-03-2012, 19:54
Is the SKY deal not up for re-negotiation in the summer anyway? 5 year deal with 2 year opt-out signed 2009.

They might just decide to cut their loss and gub the SPL with or withought us.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/8152874.stm

ibrox40
08-03-2012, 20:09
This is alot bigger yes vote than I thought, so what if the penalty is only for 1 season, next season say -10 then would we accept it?

Valley Bluenose
08-03-2012, 20:28
This is alot bigger yes vote than I thought, so what if the penalty is only for 1 season, next season say -10 then would we accept it?

A question I posed on a previous thread and one which is a lot more difficult - especially if you were puting your millions into the Club.

ibrox40
08-03-2012, 21:15
A question I posed on a previous thread and one which is a lot more difficult - especially if you were puting your millions into the Club.

Why not use the threat to push for a whole revamp of Scottish football? God knows its needed.

Barwon
08-03-2012, 21:21
they will want to get our punishment sorted asap so that it will dissuade potential buyers from investing

TimzRFudz
08-03-2012, 21:26
I'm now fairly relaxed that SFL 3rd Div is the right thing to do, and I will also revel in the disasters that will affect a number of clubs above us.

However - lets say we win back to back promotions - what the hell will be left for us to "join" in the SPL after 3 years of nonsense in our absence? I think the damage will be irreparable and so by going to Div 3 might we also be destroying our own long-term recovery?

ibrox40
08-03-2012, 21:27
they will want to get our punishment sorted asap so that it will dissuade potential buyers from investing

Probably correct, but what if some of the investors are Rangers men who won't role over for Lawell and the SPL and who are willing to take the hit or at the least threaten the whole SPL with it. What sort of punishment if any should be accepted?

BlueNotWhyte
08-03-2012, 21:27
We will receive no further punishment if we exit adminstration before the end of the season.

We may face a further one season points deduction if still in adminstration next season.

The "threats" of three season penalty points plus loss of tv revenue were mooted should we go into liquidation and start as a newco. These are hollow threats, as we would not necessarily be going into the SPL in the first place, and as a newco we cannot be held legally responsible for the former set up at the club.

ibrox40
08-03-2012, 21:31
We will receive no further punishment if we exit adminstration before the end of the season.

We may face a further one season points deduction if still in adminstration next season.

The "threats" of three season penalty points plus loss of tv revenue were mooted should we go into liquidation and start as a newco. These are hollow threats, as we would not necessarily be going into the SPL in the first place, and as a newco we cannot be held legally responsible for the former set up at the club.

Your being naive if you think they won't try, a newco might be called "Glasgow Rangers FC" still play at Ibrox and still wear the colours and club crest. Lawell and some in SPL will want more punishment.

ao
08-03-2012, 21:37
Yes - no way could I accept Rangers having to "thank" scum fc, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen etc for "allowing" us the "privilege" of playing in the SPL, while basically being nothing better than their bitch.

Better to start off in Div.3 or wherever with our dignity intact.

mad4rfcme
08-03-2012, 21:41
Whatever it takes, we must avoid being liewells whipping boys.

BlueNotWhyte
08-03-2012, 21:42
Your being naive if you think that a newco might be called "Glasgow Rangers FC" still play at Ibrox and still wear the colours and club crest. Lawell and some in SPL will want more punishment.

Well you will need to argue that one with the administrators who told us;


Mr Whitehouse later told Rangers TV: “What we don’t want to do is mix the terminology here and start to portray liquidation as a process that creates the cessation of the business. The liquidation will wind up a business following the sale of the business activities into a new company.

So according to this firm of global experts, if we have to go for liquidation, all assets wil be sold to the newco before liquidation...and therefore..


So, in any scenario, we would still envisage that Rangers Football Club could play football and operate as a football team.


So again if you wish to dispute the point you will have to do so with the administrators directly.

And again I say, that there feck all a league or an FA can do to a new footballco in terms of "punishment" regarding the doings of a former footballco, thats what the liquidation process does, all debts and liabilities remain with the oldco and all assets are moved to the newco.


...

shotasboots
08-03-2012, 21:43
Liewell can run and jump.

Why over 3 seasons? Would say Aberdeen or D Utd get it over 3 seasons? eh no.

Div 3 for me and let the good times commence

mad4rfcme
08-03-2012, 21:46
Yes - no way could I accept Rangers having to "thank" scum fc, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen etc for "allowing" us the "privilege" of playing in the SPL, while basically being nothing better than their bitch.

Better to start off in Div.3 or wherever with our dignity intact.

Chic Young said similar tonight and he reckons we could come up through the divisions the better for it with some real money gathered. This scenario is bad for the SPL. They need us, simple as.

ibrox40
08-03-2012, 21:49
Well you will need to argue that one with the administrators who told us;



So according to this firm of global experts, if we have to go for liquidation, all assets wil be sold to the newco before liquidation...and therefore..




So again if you wish to dispute the point you will have to do so with the administrators directly.

And again I say, that there feck all a league or an FA can do to a new footballco in terms of "punishment" regarding the doings of a former footballco, thats what the liquidation process does, all debts and liabilities remain with the oldco and all assets are moved to the newco.


...


Ok am I misunderstanding something?

I thought liquidation would mean us starting anew. I understood it would wipe out all debts etc but we would have to operate under a different name and reapply for SPL membership.

Thus Lawell and some of the SPL move in to impose penalties allowing us in (to keep generating cash for them all) but to hamstring us with penalties.

I not arguing here but this seems to be what the mhedia are trotting out.

adelblue
08-03-2012, 21:52
I would love to take them all down. And regan, broad foot and the rest. Samson option for me.

BlueNotWhyte
08-03-2012, 22:01
Ok am I misunderstanding something?

I thought liquidation would mean us starting anew. I understood it would wipe out all debts etc but we would have to operate under a different name and reapply for SPL membership.

Thus Lawell and some of the SPL move in to impose penalties allowing us in (to keep generating cash for them all) but to hamstring us with penalties.

I not arguing here but this seems to be what the mhedia are trotting out.

We would be dropped from the SPL with imediate effect, as the oldRangers plc team would cease to exist.

We could then re-apply to any league as a newRangers ltd.

The preferrable scenario for many bears is to apply to the SFL and leave the SPL to sweat in their own piss steam for while.

It's the SFA who are causing the confusion by listing all the punishments they would give us if we formed a newco. It is very difficuilt to see how they could get away with this legaly.

bigkahunarab
08-03-2012, 22:06
Ahem, so Mr Sky,..... we've accepted Rangers back into the SPL but because we hate them we've decided to keep all their TV money and fine them and dock 15 points a season for three years....

Mr SKY

Mr SKY

Mr SKY


Come back Shane............

Wickerman74
08-03-2012, 22:19
I think it would be quite an adventure watching us go up the leagues if this was the case, seeing the team build up stronger and stronger every year. But my fear is also what state the SPL will be in by the time we get there again. They will have had at least three years free run at the title and CL. I fail to see any benefit for the likes of Hearts etc.

Its absolutely incredible that we are thinking this way now less than a year after thinking we had been saved...

edbur
08-03-2012, 22:23
I'm now fairly relaxed that SFL 3rd Div is the right thing to do, and I will also revel in the disasters that will affect a number of clubs above us.

However - lets say we win back to back promotions - what the hell will be left for us to "join" in the SPL after 3 years of nonsense in our absence? I think the damage will be irreparable and so by going to Div 3 might we also be destroying our own long-term recovery?

At last, a poster who sees the big picture......

NS
08-03-2012, 22:25
Why not use the threat to push for a whole revamp of Scottish football? God knows its needed.
This........

cliftonperkins
08-03-2012, 23:04
I doubt that we'll really have a choice in the matter. Liquidation means a new team, so SFL 3 is required. CVA means we stay in the SPL and have to live with points penalties. With CVA, I guess we could resign from the SPL and see if the SFL will take us, but in that scenario, I suspect the SPL would push for points penalties to still be imposed when we make it back to the SPL. Which would be even worse. But purely in terms of my interest in the games, I would rather we play penalty free in SFL 3 than handicapped in the SPL.

BlueRambo
08-03-2012, 23:56
lets say we win back to back promotions - what the hell will be left for us to "join" in the SPL after 3 years of nonsense in our absence?

my fear is also what state the SPL will be in by the time we get there again. They will have had at least three years free run at the title and CL. I fail to see any benefit for the likes of Hearts etc.

I don`t give a phuck what state the SPL will be in,as long as we`re back there penalty free


I suspect the SPL would push for points penalties to still be imposed when we make it back to the SPL.
how can they do that? we`ll be a new club promoted fair & square

AGM Bear
09-03-2012, 00:05
I see the attraction.... for sure, not like we are going to be allowed any success for several years anyway (points deductions, no European football, etc) but I think financially it would be a huge blow to us too.

No visiting support to speak of, in addition to falling support from 'home fans' which i think would be inevitable due to the quality of opposition.
Players leaving due to lack of quality / competition.
Potentially permanent damage to Sky TV deal, sponsorships, etc.
Not to mention the 'embarrassment' of having to work up through the leagues.

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there will be many more down sides.


*I do like the idea though of showing the rest of the SPL exactly what Rangers bring to the table, see how they cope without us.
Also, as we will have a period of rebuilding and penalties for the next few years it's not like we are going to miss out on anything.

ibrox40
09-03-2012, 00:22
We would be dropped from the SPL with imediate effect, as the oldRangers plc team would cease to exist.

We could then re-apply to any league as a newRangers ltd.

The preferrable scenario for many bears is to apply to the SFL and leave the SPL to sweat in their own piss steam for while.

It's the SFA who are causing the confusion by listing all the punishments they would give us if we formed a newco. It is very difficuilt to see how they could get away with this legaly.

Ok thanks for the clarification.

But you say "It is very difficult to see how they could get away with this legally" ; this is the bit that worries me, legally they don't seem accountable for anything, they seem to to make it up as they go.

Take today for example CW isn't fit & proper, aye very good bit late now.

I guess, I don't trust them one bit, Regan, Doncaster Lawell and all.

Still think you're being naive if you think that they won't try to shaft us big time and legally "their ball, their game, they make up the rules as suits them"

ibrox40
09-03-2012, 00:29
I see the attraction.... for sure, not like we are going to be allowed any success for several years anyway (points deductions, no European football, etc) but I think financially it would be a huge blow to us too.

No visiting support to speak of, in addition to falling support from 'home fans' which i think would be inevitable due to the quality of opposition.
Players leaving due to lack of quality / competition.
Potentially permanent damage to Sky TV deal, sponsorships, etc.
Not to mention the 'embarrassment' of having to work up through the leagues.

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there will be many more down sides.


*I do like the idea though of showing the rest of the SPL exactly what Rangers bring to the table, see how they cope without us.
Also, as we will have a period of rebuilding and penalties for the next few years it's not like we are going to miss out on anything.

This is the main point here it's a deterrent, basically saying this is what we will do if you try it. But as a deterrent you must be serious in carrying it through. Read the wiki link again on the meaning.

scotto
09-03-2012, 00:37
If we were to stay in the SPL why would SKY do a deal for a 1 horse league where we're docked 15pts+ for a few years. It's not that competitive as it is so I don't imagine the same deal would be struck anyway so start at the 3rd div.

govanbluenose
09-03-2012, 00:42
We will receive no further punishment if we exit adminstration before the end of the season.

We may face a further one season points deduction if still in adminstration next season.

The "threats" of three season penalty points plus loss of tv revenue were mooted should we go into liquidation and start as a newco. These are hollow threats, as we would not necessarily be going into the SPL in the first place, and as a newco we cannot be held legally responsible for the former set up at the club.

No drop one division? I don't fancy playing Falkirk, Ross Co, ICT, QoS, Dunfermlne, Raith.....but you gotta do what you gotta do to get up the mountain Whyte made for us. In the process, who knows, we might actually find some talent we never had a chance to see before....

ibrox40
09-03-2012, 00:44
No drop one division? I don't fancy playing Falkirk, Ross Co, ICT, QoS, Dunfermlne, Raith.....but you gotta do what you gotta do to get up the mountain Whyte made for us. In the process, who knows, we might actually find some talent we never had a chance to see before....

If we were to apply to the SFL we would need to start in Div 3.......unless they changed their rules.

ibrox40
11-04-2012, 16:49
Given today's developments we should pull the whole house of cards down.

bleau
11-04-2012, 16:58
Time to look after number 1 fek the rest no matter who, no assistance to the national team ,question every move by the sfa,sfl via the courts if need be be as obstructive as possible ,minimum hospitality etc

joe1958
11-04-2012, 17:06
We would be dropped from the SPL with imediate effect, as the oldRangers plc team would cease to exist.

We could then re-apply to any league as a newRangers ltd.

The preferrable scenario for many bears is to apply to the SFL and leave the SPL to sweat in their own piss steam for while.

It's the SFA who are causing the confusion by listing all the punishments they would give us if we formed a newco. It is very difficuilt to see how they could get away with this legaly.

we need to challenge any rule changes that are forced through in the courts this would incur the wrath of eufa regarding all scottish clubs as thier rules clearly state, that no member club shall take that countries ruling body to court, sanctions would be imposed that include the expulsion of all member clubs of that organisation from european competition fight fire with fire i say and no european football for the unwashed

Positively Blue
11-04-2012, 17:24
If we were to apply to the SFL we would need to start in Div 3.......unless they changed their rules.

For the money we'd pour into that league, I'd be adressing that rule change as we speak if I were them!

si72
11-04-2012, 17:34
Yes is the only option we have left now imo.Div3 sees us with a clean slate but stay in sphell we will forever be on our knees pandering to the filth while winning nothing for a decade.

onedadoprso1
11-04-2012, 17:38
Sfl for me. Enough is enough. Timothy season tickets will fall every bit as much as ours will. Their business plan would be killed stone dead.

All-in Loyal
11-04-2012, 17:41
we need to challenge any rule changes that are forced through in the courts this would incur the wrath of eufa regarding all scottish clubs as thier rules clearly state, that no member club shall take that countries ruling body to court, sanctions would be imposed that include the expulsion of all member clubs of that organisation from european competition fight fire with fire i say and no european football for the unwashed
This! Time we show some backbone! :mad:

Gersandproud
11-04-2012, 17:46
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option?oldid=0

If heavy penalties are imposed by the SPL, for example 15-20 points deduction for 3 seasons and no qualification allowed for Europe. Should we leave the SPL and drop down to Div 3?

It would destroy the SPL and a few clubs with it. The SKY deal would be null and void and the SPL a laughing stock, Celtic probably winning every year by 30 - 40 points.

It would be tough on us too, vastly lower quality of squad, smaller crowds, decreased revenue, probably not able to maintain running costs for Auchenhowie. Massive hit on UEFA coefficient both for us personally and Scotland overall.

When we returned 3-4 years the SPL would be destroyed along with some teams if it survived that long. But it would also provide a big cash boost for the Div1 - Div3. Also we'd be free to have our own TV deal such as streaming our games on Rangers TV for say £10 per month.

But it could force a revamp of the league before it came to any of this.
Its shows that if they **** with us we'll bring the whole house of cards down with us, as per the title.

So yes or no?

sorry here was me believing every word till I the realised it was a fairy story

' Celtic probably winning every year by 30 - 40 points.'

ha ha ha :D:D:D- they couldnae win any league by 30 40 points :p