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The_Gub
28-11-2011, 08:45
Here’s where the story ends

On the face of it, there wouldn’t appear to be too many similarities between John Greig and Ally McCoist, other than that John Greig signed Ally McCoist for Rangers.

But then you delve deeper and you find ironies but perhaps nothing else. Well, me being me, I’ll disagree.

It would be a fair argument that both, overall, were the most charismatic and legendary players of their respective Rangers playing eras.

Both have stepped into the managerial hot seat at Ibrox as their first stab as managers in their own right. Although we know Ally has played the understudy role, blah, blah, blah.

There wouldn’t appear to be many similarities in their first seasons in charge either. Under John Greig, we had the best ever back to back European victories in our history, but played lamentably, domestically (there has to be a poem in there somewhere)

Under Ally McCoist, on the other hand we have had arguably our worst back to back European humiliations but started off domestically, rather successfully. If you don’t include the debacle at Falkirk, that is.

In John Greig’s first season as manager, we allowed utter dross at the cesspit to win the league. Time after time we had chances to put that title to bed but failed to meet the challenge. That season ended with one of the biggest OF disgraces in our history.

In Ally McCoist’s first season as manager, there is every chance the same scenario could come to pass. Whilst it’s not quite time after time just yet, the complete shambles and utter disgrace that was St Mirren and St Johnstone at Ibrox should at least have been wake up calls.

Alas, yesterday at Kilmarnock a team that lost six goals in their last home fixture would seem to prove that not to be the case.

Time proved that John Greig didn’t realise the genius at work we had in Davie Cooper. Just couldn’t get the best out of our moody blue, despite him scoring the greatest goal in OF history and under John Greig’s watch as well.

We don’t need time to prove that McCulloch and Edu shouldn’t be kicking a ball for Rangers in the first place, far less being in the same starting line up. Sticking with this pair should see the manager lose his cushy billet.

There is also a retrospective view that John Greig was knackered by financial restrictions. That was due to the building of the new Ibrox. You know the one that Murray didn’t build.

It was of course absolute horse buckey. Aberdeen and Dundee Utd weren’t in the hunt when it came to our finances, and it was John Greig himself who shelled out record Scottish transfer fees at the time for dross like Ian Redford and Craig Paterson.

Now, I’m a fair minded sort of cove and it has to be said that Ally McCoist really is working on a shoe string budget, but he’s shown himself capable of buying dross as well.

Ironies or similarities? You decide.


However, there is one major difference between 1978/79 and 2011/12. Back then we didn’t have a voice, Dom Jolly didn’t have a phone, far less access the internet.

We were treated to a yahoo called Paddy the Maddy having a pop and a gloat at Rangers on Jim Blair’s Saturday letters page. Blair of course being another kiddy on Prod, who graduated from the same school of journalism as the Dungster.

Paddy the Maddy’s rants would be answered back the following week by an Edward Bear. I have my own suspicions who that Mr Bear was, but hey, he was up for the fight and that’s all that matters.

Back then five years of my following Rangers were blighted by John Greig’s management. At no time was he ever taken out of his comfort zone by the upper management.

If Ally McCoist and his managerial team think the dross and humiliations we have endured thus far are acceptable, then we are all going to be in for a bumpy ride.

Stublue
28-11-2011, 08:47
The club wasnt beyond repair during Grieg's time now it is beyond repair

KingWoody45
28-11-2011, 08:49
I also think comparing 5 years of Greig to 5 months of McCoist is harsh.

Wee Dick's Hairnet
28-11-2011, 08:49
You've been saving that post up haven't you.

You must feel much better in yourself that you have finally got to use it.

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 08:52
You've been saving that post up haven't you.

You must feel much better in yourself that you have finally got to use it.

Rip what I've said to shreds.

The stage is yours.

BTW, I just love how I had this waiting. So you really believe I scribbled this beforehand in the knowledge we would lose at Kilmarnock? I wish I had that foresight for the Euromillions.

As I said, if you don't like it, feel free to take it apart.

TPABear
28-11-2011, 08:56
Not much can argued their

Worthy_Candidate
28-11-2011, 08:56
I think the club as a whole is in a far worse state now than it was during Greig's time.

Sir Duncan Ferguson
28-11-2011, 08:58
Greig had 5 years of absolute mediocrity.

McCoist has us 4 points clear against a Tim team who were supposedly going to wipe the floor with us.

Harsh, Gub. Very harsh.

campsie
28-11-2011, 09:00
gub i love and hate reading your posts, hate probably because you always tell it how it is and that can hurt, i do agree tho with the poster above, it is too soon to compare, or is it? when does it become not too soon? that be when its too late.;)

Going to be a shit day at work now, gonnae write something positive just to help me thru the day.

Facts are facts tho, we are top of the league but have had more horrific results in one season to last us for about 10, that shows you we are top of the league only because the rest are rank rotten.

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 09:00
Dunc, people had better get out of their comfort zones.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 09:02
Greig had 5 years of absolute mediocrity.

McCoist has us 4 points clear against a Tim team who were supposedly going to wipe the floor with us.

Harsh, Gub. Very harsh.

McCoist is on track to piss away a 12 point lead over Celtic before New Year.

Doesn't seem like a harsh analogy to me in the least.

buster
28-11-2011, 09:03
After Jock Wallace and Walter Smith it wasn´t going to be easy for whoever tookover.

The problem for me was that the wrong men were appointed. In both cases the club made the appointments hoping that good loyal servents could step up to the plate.

This is systematic of an approach that IMO hasn´t been professional enough over the years and not befitting a club the size of The Rangers.

barrhillbear
28-11-2011, 09:03
I was there then and you cannot compare then and now.

Once again the PANIC button has been hit on this board

Russell_Nash
28-11-2011, 09:03
you hate him coz of sciaf

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 09:05
I was there then and you cannot compare then and now.

Once again the PANIC button has been hit on this board

Prediction of impending failure is not panic.

Believing we can win the league just because "Ally is a legend" won't do, I'm afraid.

Sir Duncan Ferguson
28-11-2011, 09:05
Dunc, people had better get out of their comfort zones.

That much is true, but I'm willing to give McCoist the season before making any judgment.

There's been signs(albeit brief ones) of a Rangers team able to play at a high tempo.

Two wingers on Saturday is an absolute must IMO. McKay and Davis in the middle. Fleck and Jelavic up top.

Stublue
28-11-2011, 09:06
Did Ally get us 12 pts clear because he is a good manager or because that other lot are sh-te

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 09:06
you hate him coz of sciaf

That's brought about the first smile since full time yesterday.

gersjim
28-11-2011, 09:12
Why don't we bring in a seasoned manager, one like Advocaat, I know we don't have the money, however surely we can find a decent manager?

47blue
28-11-2011, 09:14
I well remember Greig's time as a manager,the highs of Eindhoven & Juventus & the desperate sadness when he left as manager
I was also at the cesspit when we lost 4-2. Its my understanding JG had the guts & dignity to go into the rhats dressing room & congratulate them.That's the measure of the man
As for Ally apart from the goals,the charisma & all the great times, my abiding memory of him is coming back from the hurt of having the Copland road stand singing 'Ally,Ally GTF',to go on to have such a glittering career. We should not forget his role in our successes during his time as an assistant.
The Gub is like a dog with a bone & much as I respect his knowledge & love of Rangers,the simple truth is Ally needs time & support. The club is barely clinging to life pending the HMRC case & we have a squad full of mediocrity.
I have no doubts the Gub will glorify in saying I told you so, if Ally doesn't come up to the mark. As with much of the Gubs rants,it won't tell the full story

davemac60
28-11-2011, 09:14
Rangers football club has seen many footballers come and go in its time, there will be more. However some supporters have a short memory, were we saying the same derogitory remarks about Lee McCulloch when he bulleted home the header at Porkheid, and were we all jumping in the stands when in injury time Mo Edu, scored the winner at Ibrox to all but secure 3 in a row last February, come on guys get a grip

As for the comparisons between Greig and McCoist, the jury should remain out, FOREVER. Times have moved on in football in all respects and to argue over 5 years of John Greig and 5 months of Ally is short of the mark for me at this stage. We are and have come through hard times the last 4-5 years securing 3 SPL titles and numerous cups to boot

We have seen Ally be mentored by SWS and continue to try and bring in decent players and bring the youngsters into the first team at Rangers hopefully that will continue in the Rangers way. Get behind Ally he knows what it is to play for Rangers to win cups and titles and no one will hurt like hime when we lose games we should win, and unlike LeGuin he also knows what Rangers fans expect

Come on Guys get behind the legend that is Alistair McCoist, OBE that is Order of the British Empire and get the 4 in a row that we expect and want. FQAC

buster
28-11-2011, 09:15
Why don't we bring in a seasoned manager, one like Advocaat, I know we don't have the money, however surely we can find a decent manager?

I got laughed out of court for suggesting McInnes.

He would have been realistic in terms of contract but the decision about McCoist was taken back in January 2007 providing WS didn´t crash and burn.

Stublue
28-11-2011, 09:16
Why don't we bring in a seasoned manager, one like Advocaat, I know we don't have the money, however surely we can find a decent manager?

Big name are not interested in working in a wee league why would they?

Just because our club is down you think they will come running to help get real mate

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 09:17
That much is true, but I'm willing to give McCoist the season before making any judgment.

There's been signs(albeit brief ones) of a Rangers team able to play at a high tempo.

Two wingers on Saturday is an absolute must IMO. McKay and Davis in the middle. Fleck and Jelavic up top.

But you know that won't happen, Dunc. Edu and McCulloch will play.

What will that tell you when McCoist picks them yet again?

potnryan_2
28-11-2011, 09:18
Greig had 5 years of absolute mediocrity.

McCoist has us 4 points clear against a Tim team who were supposedly going to wipe the floor with us.

Harsh, Gub. Very harsh.

that is a head in the sand post:o

Mr Super Bad
28-11-2011, 09:19
But you know that won't happen, Dunc. Edu and McCulloch will play.

What will that tell you when McCoist picks them yet again?

McCulloch and Edu will cost McCoist his job. He has to realise this sooner rather than later.

However, a sacking now would be absolutely catastrophic to the season.

Wee Dick's Hairnet
28-11-2011, 09:20
I well remember Greig's time as a manager,the highs of Eindhoven & Juventus & the desperate sadness when he left as manager
I was also at the cesspit when we lost 4-2. Its my understanding JG had the guts & dignity to go into the rhats dressing room & congratulate them.That's the measure of the man
As for Ally apart from the goals,the charisma & all the great times, my abiding memory of him is coming back from the hurt of having the Copland road stand singing 'Ally,Ally GTF',to go on to have such a glittering career. We should not forget his role in our successes during his time as an assistant.
The Gub is like a dog with a bone & much as I respect his knowledge & love of Rangers,the simple truth is Ally needs time & support. The club is barely clinging to life pending the HMRC case & we have a squad full of mediocrity.
I have no doubts the Gub will glorify in saying I told you so, if Ally doesn't come up to the mark. As with much of the Gubs rants,it won't tell the full story

Exactly.

I really don't know why people like Gub decide to support a football team.

I get the impression that he has been dying to make this post. You never hear from him when things are ticking along.

Why don't you get behind the man and give him full support rather than trying to make yourself look smart on an internet forum? Really beats me.

Our home form is crap because the players are terrified of making a mistake and get the wrath of the fans. No wonder with folk like him in the stands.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 09:21
I well remember Greig's time as a manager,the highs of Eindhoven & Juventus & the desperate sadness when he left as manager
I was also at the cesspit when we lost 4-2. Its my understanding JG had the guts & dignity to go into the rhats dressing room & congratulate them.That's the measure of the man
As for Ally apart from the goals,the charisma & all the great times, my abiding memory of him is coming back from the hurt of having the Copland road stand singing 'Ally,Ally GTF',to go on to have such a glittering career. We should not forget his role in our successes during his time as an assistant.
The Gub is like a dog with a bone & much as I respect his knowledge & love of Rangers,the simple truth is Ally needs time & support. The club is barely clinging to life pending the HMRC case & we have a squad full of mediocrity.
I have no doubts the Gub will glorify in saying I told you so, if Ally doesn't come up to the mark. As with much of the Gubs rants,it won't tell the full story

The simple truth is Ally needs to get his thumb out of his arse and stop picking duds every fecking week.

He doesn't need "time or support", he needs to be told that the team he insists on picking is not fecking good enough and never will be.

47blue
28-11-2011, 09:24
The simple truth is Ally needs to get his thumb out of his arse and stop picking duds every fecking week.

He doesn't need "time or support", he needs to be told that the team he insists on picking is not fecking good enough and never will be.

I agree he needs to stop picking duds, I would start with our gutless captain.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 09:24
Exactly.

I really don't know why people like Gub decide to support a football team.

I get the impression that he has been dying to make this post. You never hear from him when things are ticking along.

Why don't you get behind the man and give him full support rather than trying to make yourself look smart on an internet forum? Really beats me.

Our home form is crap because the players are terrified of making a mistake and get the wrath of the fans. No wonder with folk like him in the stands.

I get the impression you couldn't wait for a post like Gub's so you could come on here displaying your stoicism in the face of adversity.

The Gub supports the team because he loves them and wants them to succeed. He speaks out when he sees theam mis-managed and so he should.

It appears some people on here are Ally McCoist fans first and foremost, regardless of how badly he does his job.

Bowery Boys
28-11-2011, 09:26
Why don't we bring in a seasoned manager, one like Advocaat, I know we don't have the money, however surely we can find a decent manager?

You've just answered your own question.

Let's give McCoist the full season before we start the comparisons, eh?

Mr Super Bad
28-11-2011, 09:27
The simple truth is Ally needs to get his thumb out of his arse and stop picking duds every fecking week.

He doesn't need "time or support", he needs to be told that the team he insists on picking is not fecking good enough and never will be.

This what frightens me. I agree with what you're saying, but the list of available options doesn't fill me with confidence either.

Defensively we're okay, from then on up we have three or four decent players. But one of them won't kick a ball this season. And if people think a player who didn't make it out of the Australian League till he was 28 and a pennies signing from the bottom of the Swedish league will change our season, well, I'll have what they are on.

47blue
28-11-2011, 09:27
I get the impression you couldn't wait for a post like Gub's so you could come on here displaying your stoicism in the face of adversity.

The Gub supports the team because he loves them and wants them to succeed. He speaks out when he sees theam mis-managed and so he should.

It appears some people on here are Ally McCoist fans first and foremost, regardless of how badly he does his job.

the Gub's love of Rangers is just the same as the rest of us.Ultimately the buck stops with Ally,but the likes of Davis,Jelavic & Whittaker need to have a good look at themselves in the mirror

potnryan_2
28-11-2011, 09:28
I agree he needs to stop picking duds, I would start with our gutless captain.

i disagree, edu, mcculloch, whittaker, broadfoot, lafferty should all be dropped before davis

Wee Dick's Hairnet
28-11-2011, 09:32
I get the impression you couldn't wait for a post like Gub's so you could come on here displaying your stoicism in the face of adversity.

The Gub supports the team because he loves them and wants them to succeed. He speaks out when he sees theam mis-managed and so he should.

It appears some people on here are Ally McCoist fans first and foremost, regardless of how badly he does his job.

I'm sure he is capable of speaking for himself. He doesn't need one of his lackies to do it for him.

KirkconnelBear
28-11-2011, 09:33
McCoist is on track to piss away a 12 point lead over Celtic before New Year.

Doesn't seem like a harsh analogy to me in the least.

If he is going to "piss away" a 12 point lead then surley he deserves credit for obtaining a 12 point lead?

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 09:39
If he is going to "piss away" a 12 point lead then surley he deserves credit for obtaining a 12 point lead?

Eh? So if we go 3-0 up in a game which we eventually lose 4-3, you're saying we should praise the manager for the HT score-line?

Great idea.

Stublue
28-11-2011, 09:40
Eh? So if we go 3-0 up in a game which we eventually lose 4-3, you're saying we should praise the manager for the HT score-line?

Great idea.

As I said earlier did he go 12 clear because he is a good manger or because the scum are sh-te

KirkconnelBear
28-11-2011, 09:41
Eh? So if we go 3-0 up in a game which we eventually lose 4-3, you're saying we should praise the manager for the HT score-line?

Great idea.

If we were down 3 nil and eventually won 4-3 should we lambast the manager for the half time scoreline?

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 09:42
I'm sure he is capable of speaking for himself. He doesn't need one of his lackies to do it for him.

That's me, a Gub lacky! And proud to be so. :D

Earl of Leven
28-11-2011, 09:43
Why should he get more time, patience, etc, or be given as long as he needs?

Surely his task is the same as all managers? And surely we should judge him as we would any manager?

He is failing at the moment and needs to do much better....and frankly many of us don't care if he's a legend, or 'Whyte betrayed him' or anything else.

He wanted the job, he's got it and now he has to do it.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 09:45
As I said earlier did he go 12 clear because he is a good manger or because the scum are sh-te

I think we're all beginning to see the answer to that question, mate. If Ally McCoist is the best manager we could possibly have, I'm Gerry Adams.

Anyway, isn't it time for a thread questioning Craig Whyte's financial dealings from ten years ago?

That's what really matters. Apparently.

Mr Super Bad
28-11-2011, 09:48
Anyone thinking we'd get a top manager in just now is kidding themselves.

There's no money to spend, the SPL is shite, we're not in Europe, we couldn't/wouldn't pay compensation to a club and we can't guarantee anything past the next six weeks due to the tax case.

Anyone trotting out 'but we're a massive club' needs to look at that. fact is, it's Jimmy Calderwood or Billy Davies. And that's just change for the sake of change. Like it or lump it, while McCoist can still win the league, he'll be in the job.

Asiablue
28-11-2011, 09:50
John Greig was many things during his playing career.... charismatic
Was not one of them.

Earl of Leven
28-11-2011, 09:51
It is important that any change in manager is accompanied by a root and branch 'performance review' of the football side of the club. This may only be possible of HMRC case goes 'well'.

I would imagine such a review will lead to changes at many levels and not just managerial. But without a bean there is no point in changing things just yet (albeit we'll have to if we lose title to the Orcs).

Don Roberto
28-11-2011, 09:53
Greig had 5 years of absolute mediocrity.

McCoist has us 4 points clear against a Tim team who were supposedly going to wipe the floor with us.

Harsh, Gub. Very harsh.

Unfortunately,the way he has had the team performing recently this lead will disappear like snow aff a dyke - I was prepared to give McCoist the benefit of doubt,however the complete lack of motivation and tactics shown by the team indicate a poor standard of play not seen for many years and my confidence is slipping.

Having said all that,I will still be there on Saturday,more in hope mind than anticipation.

Stublue
28-11-2011, 09:55
It is important that any change in manager is accompanied by a root and branch 'performance review' of the football side of the club. This may only be possible of HMRC case goes 'well'.

I would imagine such a review will lead to changes at many levels and not just managerial. But without a bean there is no point in changing things just yet (albeit we'll have to if we lose title to the Orcs).

I reckon the club its lawyers and MPs are trying to work something out with HMRC

Putting it across to them if they let the club fold its affect will be too much for a certain part of society

1960bear
28-11-2011, 09:55
That much is true, but I'm willing to give McCoist the season before making any judgment.

There's been signs(albeit brief ones) of a Rangers team able to play at a high tempo.

Two wingers on Saturday is an absolute must IMO. McKay and Davis in the middle. Fleck and Jelavic up top.

You are willing to give McCoist time which is fair enough but you then tell him who to pick. He hasn't, up until now, played a team with neither Edu or McCulloch in it and i don't see him starting now. I don't think either should be in the team and it will ultimately cost the manager his job.

Sam_English
28-11-2011, 10:00
That OF game (May 1979) was the worst i've ever attended in all my time following the Rangers.

Stublue
28-11-2011, 10:03
Most of the players who play for Ally wouldn't get a place in the team Greig had that show how mediocre we are now and Grieg's team were bad I tell thee

buster
28-11-2011, 10:04
It is important that any change in manager is accompanied by a root and branch 'performance review' of the football side of the club. This may only be possible of HMRC case goes 'well'.

I would imagine such a review will lead to changes at many levels and not just managerial. But without a bean there is no point in changing things just yet (albeit we'll have to if we lose title to the Orcs).

We´ve been needing a meaningful one of those for all the time I´ve been a supporter.
Still waiting for good consistent first touch, pass and move at a level that can perform in Europe.

Sadly we´ve missed the boat.

le bluebear
28-11-2011, 10:07
McCulloch and Edu will cost McCoist his job. He has to realise this sooner rather than later.

However, a sacking now would be absolutely catastrophic to the season.

McCulloch and Edu are poor players , but it was stated on here a few times last season that they would cost us the SPL title.

Earl of Leven
28-11-2011, 10:08
We´ve been needing a meaningful one of those for all the time I´ve been a supporter.
Still waiting for good consistent first touch, pass and move at a level that can perform in Europe.

Sadly we´ve missed the boat.

It is never too late.

Someone has to work out what kind of club we are and be realistic. To be a selling club we need better players, coaching, youth system and scouting. Without these you need to be a buying club and we have no money.

It's not that complicated.

90minbear
28-11-2011, 10:10
I reckon the club its lawyers and MPs are trying to work something out with HMRC

Putting it across to them if they let the club fold its affect will be too much for a certain part of society

Sorry but you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Fraser from the Dundee Trust told us at the Gerspride conference that HMRC have a national policy on this. They don't do deals. He should know they have been through it twice.

thelegend
28-11-2011, 10:11
i disagree, edu, mcculloch, whittaker, broadfoot, lafferty should all be dropped before davis

And therein lies the problem - a complete lack of quality in players
who, in the main, are first choices.
We have a midfield that is almost static, meaning that the gap
between midfield and front player(s) is usually about 40 yards.
Result ? The 40 yard lump.
None of the players above have the qualities needed to link the play.
There is no pace without Naismith. McCulloch looked like a carthorse
on Sunday.

Stublue
28-11-2011, 10:12
Sorry but you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Fraser from the Dundee Trust told us at the Gerspride conference that HMRC have a national policy on this. They don't do deals. He should know they have been through it twice.

Comparing Dundee with RFC :D

Mr Super Bad
28-11-2011, 10:13
McCulloch and Edu are poor players , but it was stated on here a few times last season that they would cost us the SPL title.

It's like relying on a dodgy motor mate; great all the times it works, but eventually you know it's going to break down and leave you stranded.

Earl of Leven
28-11-2011, 10:15
It's like relying on a dodgy motor mate; great all the times it works, but eventually you know it's going to break down and leave you stranded.

Worrying then how quickly McCoist seems to have judged McKay, Ortiz, Bedoya, Fleck etc.....Oct and he was straight back to 'the lads' again.

le bluebear
28-11-2011, 10:15
It's like relying on a dodgy motor mate; great all the times it works, but eventually you know it's going to break down and leave you stranded.

We have a team of average to decent players.

That's why they fail to raise their game frequently to the level required.

They can't.

buster
28-11-2011, 10:15
It is never too late.

Someone has to work out what kind of club we are and be realistic. To be a selling club we need better players, coaching, youth system and scouting. Without these you need to be a buying club and we have no money.

It's not that complicated.

You´re right in saying we have to be realistic.

Unfortunately realism at the present juncture isn´t pleasent for those with European ambitions and points to a much more frugal existence.

Scottish football in general has to be more realistic in terms of player wages and ticket prices.

Earl of Leven
28-11-2011, 10:17
You´re right in saying we have to be realistic.

Unfortunately realism at the present juncture isn´t a pleasent for those with European ambitions and points to a much more frugal existence.

Scottish football in general has to be more realistic in terms of player wages and ticket prices.

I agree....and that means the era of the Smith style manager is gone. We can't have someone who pins up team sheet on a Saturday. Future appoinments will need to be 'tracksuit' managers imho....guys who can squeeze every last drop from solid, journeymen types. Raise their esteem, raise their value, raise their game.

"Go out, enjoy it, run about a bit" will have no place in our future if that future is to be at all bright.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 10:19
We have a team of average to decent players.

That's why they fail to raise their game frequently to the level required.

They can't.

In the main, that's true. But we're handicapping ourselves still further by picking a player in centre-mid who simply cannot play that role.

Every time I see McCulloch in a Rangers shirt, my heart sinks.

This madness has to stop.

le bluebear
28-11-2011, 10:21
In the main, that's true. But we're handicapping ourselves still further by picking a player in centre-mid who simply cannot play that role.

Every time I see McCulloch in a Rangers shirt, my heart sinks.

This madness has to stop.

I agree , but you could go through the whole team and pick out flaws that the individuals named never seem to work on improving.

That's a factor that i've never quite understood.

buster
28-11-2011, 10:22
Worrying then how quickly McCoist seems to have judged McKay, Ortiz, Bedoya, Fleck etc.....Oct and he was straight back to 'the lads' again.

When so many players don´t fit you have to question the fitter, especially when the fitter bought the parts.

TBF to McCoist, often players need time and at Rangers time is a scarce commodity.

90minbear
28-11-2011, 10:28
Comparing Dundee with RFC :D

HMRC follow their rules. Matters not a jot to them who the club is. Fraser was merely explaining the rules.

Stublue
28-11-2011, 10:29
HMRC follow their rules. Matters not a jot to them who the club is. Fraser was merely explaining the rules.

Well I believe differently

Nelka
28-11-2011, 10:29
As one of my heroes, I was willing to give Ally time.

However, my patience is rapidly wearing thin. The football is turgid, and a blind man could see that certain players aren't up to it - yet are picked week after week.

The product is woeful and at this rate I can see Ibrox being half-empty every week in the near future.

womble 3
28-11-2011, 10:34
A bit harsh its is harsh

Lets see as for greig am not of an age i can really speak of his tenure but lets be fair he had no grounding apart from being a player before stepping up

McCoist did however have some coaching before taking the step there have been signs we can perform well there have signs that at times we cant perform after our european debacle i clamoured for his removal but hve soften since then he deserves the year and lets be honest all teams go through bad patches so lets get behind him for now

and btw gub what your views on davy white /waddell?

Bowery Boys
28-11-2011, 10:36
HMRC follow their rules. Matters not a jot to them who the club is. Fraser was merely explaining the rules.

They settled out of court with Arsenal.

Hammerinho
28-11-2011, 10:45
They settled out of court with Arsenal.

And Vodafone and Goldman Sachs.....

Mr Super Bad
28-11-2011, 10:49
Worrying then how quickly McCoist seems to have judged McKay, Ortiz, Bedoya, Fleck etc.....Oct and he was straight back to 'the lads' again.

Yep. He signed those players (except Fleck, obviously.)

Come November and we're stuck with the same olds.

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 10:52
I'm sure he is capable of speaking for himself. He doesn't need one of his lackies to do it for him.

Forget lackies and look at your first post on this thread.

According to you, I basically, I wrote this in the summer because I just knew in advance we'd fess up at home to St Mirren and St Johnstone and then get even worse at Rugby Park.

As I said in my reply, you don't need to like me, just confront the truth of where we are. We ain't where we should be.

In my opinion there have been signs from the start of the season that all ain't well.

PS, is it possible for me to be my own lackey?

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 11:05
A bit harsh its is harsh

Lets see as for greig am not of an age i can really speak of his tenure but lets be fair he had no grounding apart from being a player before stepping up

McCoist did however have some coaching before taking the step there have been signs we can perform well there have signs that at times we cant perform after our european debacle i clamoured for his removal but hve soften since then he deserves the year and lets be honest all teams go through bad patches so lets get behind him for now

and btw gub what your views on davy white /waddell?

I've said many, many times that with regards to Rangers my old man had a very big influence on me.

It is only when you get that wee bit older, you start to look at things through your own eyes.

However, this is a subject worthy of an article on its own.

It could be argued that it wasn't Berwick that cost Scot Symon his job, but rather two missed penalties, one at Ibrox and one at CP, the following season in the League Cup sections that did.

Because of that, Davie White came in.

RangersForMe
28-11-2011, 11:08
It's true that we have average players when compared to better teams from bigger leagues, and some individual players from other leagues, but the fact is that man for man we have better players in almost every position than every other team in Scotland.

The other fact is that we play a slow predictable game in midfield where our centre halves are the out ball. Then it's a lump up the park.

We get it back and it starts all over again, and again ..............

If our wide players don't play or play but don't perform we're f.cuked.

Naismith offered an alternative and Ally is going to have to find another alternative PDQ or he'll join his pedestrian midfield on a long walk to another job.

craigie
28-11-2011, 11:30
Here’s where the story ends

On the face of it, there wouldn’t appear to be too many similarities between John Greig and Ally McCoist, other than that John Greig signed Ally McCoist for Rangers.

But then you delve deeper and you find ironies but perhaps nothing else. Well, me being me, I’ll disagree.

It would be a fair argument that both, overall, were the most charismatic and legendary players of their respective Rangers playing eras.

Both have stepped into the managerial hot seat at Ibrox as their first stab as managers in their own right. Although we know Ally has played the understudy role, blah, blah, blah.

There wouldn’t appear to be many similarities in their first seasons in charge either. Under John Greig, we had the best ever back to back European victories in our history, but played lamentably, domestically (there has to be a poem in there somewhere)

Under Ally McCoist, on the other hand we have had arguably our worst back to back European humiliations but started off domestically, rather successfully. If you don’t include the debacle at Falkirk, that is.

In John Greig’s first season as manager, we allowed utter dross at the cesspit to win the league. Time after time we had chances to put that title to bed but failed to meet the challenge. That season ended with one of the biggest OF disgraces in our history.

In Ally McCoist’s first season as manager, there is every chance the same scenario could come to pass. Whilst it’s not quite time after time just yet, the complete shambles and utter disgrace that was St Mirren and St Johnstone at Ibrox should at least have been wake up calls.

Alas, yesterday at Kilmarnock a team that lost six goals in their last home fixture would seem to prove that not to be the case.

Time proved that John Greig didn’t realise the genius at work we had in Davie Cooper. Just couldn’t get the best out of our moody blue, despite him scoring the greatest goal in OF history and under John Greig’s watch as well.

We don’t need time to prove that McCulloch and Edu shouldn’t be kicking a ball for Rangers in the first place, far less being in the same starting line up. Sticking with this pair should see the manager lose his cushy billet.

There is also a retrospective view that John Greig was knackered by financial restrictions. That was due to the building of the new Ibrox. You know the one that Murray didn’t build.

It was of course absolute horse buckey. Aberdeen and Dundee Utd weren’t in the hunt when it came to our finances, and it was John Greig himself who shelled out record Scottish transfer fees at the time for dross like Ian Redford and Craig Paterson.

Now, I’m a fair minded sort of cove and it has to be said that Ally McCoist really is working on a shoe string budget, but he’s shown himself capable of buying dross as well.

Ironies or similarities? You decide.


However, there is one major difference between 1978/79 and 2011/12. Back then we didn’t have a voice, Dom Jolly didn’t have a phone, far less access the internet.

We were treated to a yahoo called Paddy the Maddy having a pop and a gloat at Rangers on Jim Blair’s Saturday letters page. Blair of course being another kiddy on Prod, who graduated from the same school of journalism as the Dungster.

Paddy the Maddy’s rants would be answered back the following week by an Edward Bear. I have my own suspicions who that Mr Bear was, but hey, he was up for the fight and that’s all that matters.

Back then five years of my following Rangers were blighted by John Greig’s management. At no time was he ever taken out of his comfort zone by the upper management.

If Ally McCoist and his managerial team think the dross and humiliations we have endured thus far are acceptable, then we are all going to be in for a bumpy ride.

You believe that do you?



25/10

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 11:42
You believe that do you?



25/10

I really cannot fathom out where you are coming from, so enlighten me.

Special Agent Oso
28-11-2011, 11:45
Most of the players who play for Ally wouldn't get a place in the team Greig had that show how mediocre we are now and Grieg's team were bad I tell thee

I'm sorry but that is simply not true.

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 11:48
I'm sorry but that is simply not true.

McGregor would
Jelavic would

Not many I can think of thereafter.

youngsy
28-11-2011, 11:54
Rangers football club has seen many footballers come and go in its time, there will be more. However some supporters have a short memory, were we saying the same derogitory remarks about Lee McCulloch when he bulleted home the header at Porkheid, and were we all jumping in the stands when in injury time Mo Edu, scored the winner at Ibrox to all but secure 3 in a row last February, come on guys get a grip

As for the comparisons between Greig and McCoist, the jury should remain out, FOREVER. Times have moved on in football in all respects and to argue over 5 years of John Greig and 5 months of Ally is short of the mark for me at this stage. We are and have come through hard times the last 4-5 years securing 3 SPL titles and numerous cups to boot

We have seen Ally be mentored by SWS and continue to try and bring in decent players and bring the youngsters into the first team at Rangers hopefully that will continue in the Rangers way. Get behind Ally he knows what it is to play for Rangers to win cups and titles and no one will hurt like hime when we lose games we should win, and unlike LeGuin he also knows what Rangers fans expect

Come on Guys get behind the legend that is Alistair McCoist, OBE that is Order of the British Empire and get the 4 in a row that we expect and want. FQAC

Should we accept the mediocrity of McCulloch and Edu today because they both scored against the tarriers yesterday? Of course we shouldn't,both of them add absolutely nothing to the team and now is the time to wind down their time at the club.

McCoist,though,has a far harder job on his plate than Greig did in the first year of his tenure due to the financial restrictions placed on the club. Greig never had such a handicap,he just mostly bought badly but McCoist is the man in charge who has allowed a very healthy lead disappear against teams that shouldn't be allowed to live with us far less beat or draw with us.
He has to start freshening up this team now instead of going with the predictable game after game.

Bonkle Bear
28-11-2011, 11:54
If Ally McCoist and his managerial team think the dross and humiliations we have endured thus far are acceptable, then we are all going to be in for a bumpy ride.

Just about every time we have played badly he has come out and said so. It's whether he can change things that is the worry rather than if he sees them.

youngsy
28-11-2011, 11:56
McGregor would
Jelavic would

Not many I can think of thereafter.

Naismith would be a stick on to walk into Greigs 1982/83 team.

Special Agent Oso
28-11-2011, 12:01
McGregor would
Jelavic would

Not many I can think of thereafter.

Come off it. Davis isn't better than Robert Prytz? Goian isn't better than Craig Paterson? Whittaker's not better than Ally Dawson? Papac isn't better than Hugh Burns?

The list goes on and on. John Greig's teams were abysmal and generally came 4th in the league. The nucleus of our team have won 3IAR and are4 points clear.

This team would spank any of John Greig's IMO.

Special Agent Oso
28-11-2011, 12:02
Actually, I could have made my point much quicker by saying only Bobby Russell and Davie Cooper would get in our current team.

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 12:06
Come off it. Davis isn't better than Robert Prytz? Goian isn't better than Craig Paterson? Whittaker's not better than Ally Dawson? Papac isn't better than Hugh Burns?

The list goes on and on. John Greig's teams were abysmal and generally came 4th in the league. The nucleus of our team have won 3IAR and are4 points clear.

This team would spank any of John Greig's IMO.

But were we not talking, to start with, about Greig and McCoist's first season in charge?

So, my view remains the same. Naisy for Gordon Smith possibly, as Greig ruined him.

Special Agent Oso
28-11-2011, 12:10
But were we not talking, to start with, about Greig and McCoist's first season in charge?

So, my view remains the same. Naisy for Gordon Smith possibly, as Greig ruined him.

I thought the other poster was talking about Greig's teams in general.

I started going in 1980. By that point we were already pish but I can't comment on the 78/79 team.

airportger
28-11-2011, 12:11
HMRC follow their rules. Matters not a jot to them who the club is. Fraser was merely explaining the rules.


HMRC did deals with Vodafone and Goldman Sachs.

youngsy
28-11-2011, 12:16
I thought the other poster was talking about Greig's teams in general.

I started going in 1980. By that point we were already pish but I can't comment on the 78/79 team.

The 78/79 team was,to all intents and puroses still Wallaces team.

Special Agent Oso
28-11-2011, 12:20
The 78/79 team was,to all intents and puroses still Wallaces team.

That's what I've always been led to believe.

Greig took over a treble winning team and proceeded to almost ruin us.

Gub's clearly worried that McCoist will do the same.

IMO Ally will do a great job if he gets the right backing in the transfer market and isn't forced to buy Australians and untested Americans.

gourockblue50
28-11-2011, 12:21
Things are going a bit pear shaped and the writing could be on the wall if our shortcomings aren't addressed.

Hopefully we are still 4 ahead going into the OF game. We need to win that game and we then need to come out the far side of January witha decent squad.

We can start worrying then if needed.

thebigfellaroy
28-11-2011, 12:26
1 defeat & we are carry on like this...:mad::mad:

lothiantrueblue
28-11-2011, 12:29
The club wasnt beyond repair during Grieg's time now it is beyond repair

I see a pattern emerging around your posts.

:ninja:

Bowery Boys
28-11-2011, 12:32
I see a pattern emerging around your posts.

:ninja:

Who? Justagrin?

youngsy
28-11-2011, 12:33
That's what I've always been led to believe.

Greig took over a treble winning team and proceeded to almost ruin us.

Gub's clearly worried that McCoist will do the same.

IMO Ally will do a great job if he gets the right backing in the transfer market and isn't forced to buy Australians and untested Americans.

He'll do a good job if he starts to give the like of Fleck an extended run in the team instead of always going for an easy option of using McCulloch and Edu in midfield when it's obvious to anyone with any type of eyesight that the team is pedestrian with them in it. We could be doing with bringing Hutton back from PTFC also. Also these new players are finding this style of play of a long punt totally against the football philosophy that they have been taught,in my opinion.

youngsy
28-11-2011, 12:37
1 defeat & we are carry on like this...:mad::mad:

It's not one defeat,it's the loss of 5 points against teams that shouldn't be allowed to live with us. St.Johnstone came to Ibrox and could have beat us in a stadium where they should walk into with trepidation instead of confidence and Kilmarnock, losing to a team that previously lost goals by the barrowload but we were lucky to even test their keeper.

lothiantrueblue
28-11-2011, 12:40
Who? Justagrin?

Stublue

Negative must be his middle name.

carltonblue
28-11-2011, 12:41
That's what I've always been led to believe.

Greig took over a treble winning team and proceeded to almost ruin us.

Gub's clearly worried that McCoist will do the same.

IMO Ally will do a great job if he gets the right backing in the transfer market and isn't forced to buy Australians and untested Americans.

Greig pretty much took Wallace's team and tried to keep it going as far as possible on the same lines. But Alex Forsyth was no John Greig, and Kenny Watson wasn't up to it. Jackson was beginning to get past it, DJ at centre back wasn't really working out. Greig saw the signs and tried to do something about it - but big money for the time on Stevens, Paterson and Redford and a bunch of journeymen contributed to our downfall.

It is right to draw the parallels with McCoist even this early, because it's at that point that the cracks started to show in Greig's team. I'm sure McCoist sees our failings but the jury is out on whether he can resolve them. The signs are not good I have to say.

One difference though between McCoist and Greig - in Greig's day the manager's job was to run virtually everything including the day to day stuff like the laundry(!) as well as the football side. In his autobiography it's clear that the stress of this was too much for Greig. I'm sure McCoist doesn't have anywere near that workload.

womble 3
28-11-2011, 12:42
That's what I've always been led to believe.

Greig took over a treble winning team and proceeded to almost ruin us.

Gub's clearly worried that McCoist will do the same.

IMO Ally will do a great job if he gets the right backing in the transfer market and isn't forced to buy Australians and untested Americans.

He wasn't forced to buy aussies/Americans

he had from may - july and before it to get a team he swanned off to argentina fat use that done

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 12:52
That's what I've always been led to believe.

Greig took over a treble winning team and proceeded to almost ruin us.

Gub's clearly worried that McCoist will do the same.

IMO Ally will do a great job if he gets the right backing in the transfer market and isn't forced to buy Australians and untested Americans.

Pure fantasy mate.

McCoist could be given £10m to spend in Jan and he'd still pick Edu & McCulloch every week.

And the reason Ally picks them? Because that's what Walter did and still would do.

This is beyond pathetic, it's actually laughable.

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 12:53
I thought the other poster was talking about Greig's teams in general.

I started going in 1980. By that point we were already pish but I can't comment on the 78/79 team.

I agree with you that progressively the stench of urine at Ibrox got worse.

But he (JG) started off with a squad of treble winners

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 12:55
I thought the other poster was talking about Greig's teams in general.

I started going in 1980. By that point we were already pish but I can't comment on the 78/79 team.

79/80 saw us going into freefall.

silversleeves
28-11-2011, 13:00
I still haven't made my mind up about McCoist.

Being humped out of 3 x cups and the tactics recently (high balls/no width) have worried me but we are still 4 x points clear and that's a much better position most of us dared hope.

I think the biggest problem just now is that we don't have anyone playing well and for that to happen all at the same time is unusual.

I think it might be the kick up the arse we need. There's every possibility that our lead had made some of them a little too comfortable.

We need to go out on Saturday and murder Dunfermline or the rot could well and truly set in

lothiantrueblue
28-11-2011, 13:00
79/80 saw us going into freefall.

Agreed and but for the odd cup win and wins over them it took us until 1986/87 to come back out of it.

A long time when you were at Secondary and some of the New Firm fans were born.

:mad:

:roll:

kennylanglea
28-11-2011, 13:06
Are you saying Gub that McCoist should get, or is close to getting, the bullet ?

Do you have confidence that he can turn it around ?

Or do you have someone in mind who could replace him, taking into account our current financial situation?

You don't make that clear old man !

The_Gub
28-11-2011, 13:16
Are you saying Gub that McCoist should get, or is close to getting, the bullet ?

Do you have confidence that he can turn it around ?

Or do you have someone in mind who could replace him, taking into account our current financial situation?

You don't make that clear old man !

At no time this morning have I said he should get the bullet. However, McCulloch and Edu continuing to be first picks is a worrying thought.

I don't know that he can turn it around when he he has to rely on Davis, and Davis only for creativity.

He deserves credit for wanting to tackle the job given the financial situation.

I don't have anyone specifically in mind. However, the way I look at life, there will never be a shortage of applicants for the job as manager of this wonderful club of ours.

I just reeled off a few random thoughts this morning and this is where we are.

I keep getting our financial situation rammed down my thrapple. That should not come into the equation with regards to the defeats and dropped points this season thus far.

Again, on the surface expecting a rookie manager to have won EVERY game, is a bit much. But there are games when we should have played it out differently.

We lost a goal to St Mirren from our corner kick. Is it unreasonable to be pissed off at that?

Special Agent Oso
28-11-2011, 13:18
Agreed and but for the odd cup win and wins over them it took us until 1986/87 to come back out of it.

A long time when you were at Secondary and some of the New Firm fans were born.

:mad:

:roll:

Tell me about it.

Special Agent Oso
28-11-2011, 13:21
Pure fantasy mate.

McCoist could be given £10m to spend in Jan and he'd still pick Edu & McCulloch every week.

And the reason Ally picks them? Because that's what Walter did and still would do.

This is beyond pathetic, it's actually laughable.

It's the Edu/McCulloch combo that worries me the most.

Bear_In_Orkney
28-11-2011, 13:23
If a tried and tested Manager had been employed instead of McCoist most folk on here would have wanted him out.

PLG was given extremely short shrift from follow follow and the baying mob at Fir Park.

Nobody should give McCoist carte blanche to run Rangers into the ground because of his inexperience.

He shouldn't have the job at all if you make excuses using this gambit.

We don't want 5 years of failure as we had with Greig, but some seem prepared to give him it.

Gub is correct.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 13:26
At no time this morning have I said he should get the bullet. However, McCulloch and Edu continuing to be first picks is a worrying thought.

I don't know that he can turn it around when he he has to rely on Davis, and Davis only for creativity.

He deserves credit for wanting to tackle the job given the financial situation.

I don't have anyone specifically in mind. However, the way I look at life, there will never be a shortage of applicants for the job as manager of this wonderful club of ours.

I just reeled off a few random thoughts this morning and this is where we are.

I keep getting our financial situation rammed down my thrapple. That should not come into the equation with regards to the defeats and dropped points this season thus far.

Again, on the surface expecting a rookie manager to have won EVERY game, is a bit much. But there are games when we should have played it out differently.

We lost a goal to St Mirren from our corner kick. Is it unreasonable to be pissed off at that?

Spot on. I'm sick to death of reading Rangers fans joining Tims in muck-raking over the club chairman's alleged financial misdemeanours while our laugh-a-minute manager is absolved of any blame whatsoever for the most wretched, inspid displays we've seen in years.

This is like the days when McLeish sent out terrified teams who were beaten before the first whistle. And all we read on here was "poor Eck, his hands are tied, he's been a net seller, it's all Advocaat's fault", etc.

Our recent performances have been dire. Results have stopped going our way. McCoist has to man up and arrest this decline - immediately.

kennylanglea
28-11-2011, 13:27
At no time this morning have I said he should get the bullet. However, McCulloch and Edu continuing to be first picks is a worrying thought.

I don't know that he can turn it around when he he has to rely on Davis, and Davis only for creativity.

He deserves credit for wanting to tackle the job given the financial situation.

I don't have anyone specifically in mind. However, the way I look at life, there will never be a shortage of applicants for the job as manager of this wonderful club of ours.

I just reeled off a few random thoughts this morning and this is where we are.

I keep getting our financial situation rammed down my thrapple. That should not come into the equation with regards to the defeats and dropped points this season thus far.

Again, on the surface expecting a rookie manager to have won EVERY game, is a bit much. But there are games when we should have played it out differently.

We lost a goal to St Mirren from our corner kick. Is it unreasonable to be pissed off at that?


Fair enough...and I agree with you 100%.

Was growing tired of the "well we're well ahead of Lennon's mob so shut up" brigade.

Was just wondering where you were going with it.

Point taken.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 13:28
If a tried and tested Manager had been employed instead of McCoist most folk on here would have wanted him out.

PLG was given extremely short shrift from follow follow and the baying mob at Fir Park.

Nobody should give McCoist carte blanche to run Rangers into the ground because of his inexperience.

He shouldn't have the job at all if you make excuses using this gambit.

We don't want 5 years of failure as we had with Greig, but some seem prepared to give him it.

Gub is correct.

This is what gets me, he's 49 years old.

If he's still inexperienced in his 50th year, it's high time he learned his craft.

Special Agent Oso
28-11-2011, 13:29
If a tried and tested Manager had been employed instead of McCoist most folk on here would have wanted him out.

PLG was given extremely short shrift from follow follow and the baying mob at Fir Park.

Nobody should give McCoist carte blanche to run Rangers into the ground because of his inexperience.

He shouldn't have the job at all if you make excuses using this gambit.

We don't want 5 years of failure as we had with Greig, but some seem prepared to give him it.

Gub is correct.

I was there that day and the crowd was solidly behind Barry Ferguson. Le Guen didn't do his homework, signed a bunch of duds and tried to sack our captain for being what a captain should be IMO.

I can't see any parallels with McCoist.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 13:37
I was there that day and the crowd was solidly behind Barry Ferguson. Le Guen didn't do his homework, signed a bunch of duds and tried to sack our captain for being what a captain should be IMO.

I can't see any parallels with McCoist.

PLG hugely under-estimated the task of managing Rangers and he let Bain buy poor, cut-price Austria Vienna players. He also said he was happy with the squad, while shoe-horning Man U youth-team players into every starting line-up. Gavin Rae as captain? Aye, right! He was wasting his time and ours and he had to go.

McCoist is acting like Walter Smith is looking over his shoulder. Picking Aluko yesterday looked like a panic measure and it cost us the game. For Gavin Rae, read Lee McCulloch.

I'm beginning to see some parallels.

Bear_In_Orkney
28-11-2011, 13:41
I was there that day and the crowd was solidly behind Barry Ferguson. Le Guen didn't do his homework, signed a bunch of duds and tried to sack our captain for being what a captain should be IMO.

I can't see any parallels with McCoist.

PLG was given no money ..............a similar situation to McCoist.

There's a parallel right away.

Special Agent Oso
28-11-2011, 13:43
PLG was given no money ..............a similar situation to McCoist.

There's a parallel right away.

Fair enough with that one.

I was alluding to the way things have been going.

90minbear
28-11-2011, 17:13
He wasn't forced to buy aussies/Americans

he had from may - july and before it to get a team he swanned off to argentina fat use that done

He was more or less forced. He didn't get what was it his first 6 or 7 picks thanks to the amateurs who were in charge of signing policy.

DylanGer
28-11-2011, 17:29
It's different times, no way for example will be McCoist be given even a fraction of the time Greig was given-we can see that by the reactions on here and the game has changed.

McCoist as I've said already is a fair reflection of where we are as a club, he wouldn't have been my first choice but you can see the rationale in appointing him.

Those with their heads up their arse over the current owner might well ask just exactly what will change if McCoist was sacked. We will be left with all of the same issues and challenges as a club.

I'm afraid the hardcore with the negative fixation on the manager are not really grasping that the replacement of McCoist is neither here nor there, it will take care of itself-McCoist will be judged on results.

But win or lose the title the hardcore should be asking where are we going as a club? Does that really lie fully at the door of McCoist?

SpongebobSquarePass
28-11-2011, 18:07
I'm totally behind Ally as manager, and I reckon most other fans are too.

He should be given a minimum of two years to demonstrate he can deliver.

It's underestimated how fed up a lot of fans were with type of football we played under Walter Smith. If McCoist shows ambition to build a fast mobile fit passing team then he'll be forgiven a lot more poor results than if he presides over an over physical boring style of play.

Trophies or not, no one was entertained. If he carries that on, he'll rightly get stick.

We need to change the way we play, does he have the courage and ability to do it?

the bundy
28-11-2011, 18:33
All the McCoist haters are out in force in this thread,

4 points clear, first old firm game in the bag ,

Super Ally is here to stay get used to it ...

Stublue
28-11-2011, 18:34
All the McCoist haters are out in force in this thread,

4 points clear, first old firm game in the bag ,

Super Ally is here to stay get used to it ...

Not one of us have stated we hate Ally so less of the sh-te

Wamphray Loyal
28-11-2011, 18:53
You can only piss with the c0ck that you have ,we will just have toget on with it good or bad i'm afraid ,no money available to make any significant change so the status quo remains .

Mr Super Bad
28-11-2011, 19:01
I don't have anyone specifically in mind. However, the way I look at life, there will never be a shortage of applicants for the job as manager of this wonderful club of ours.



Oh. I don't doubt that. But decent ones? Well, that's where we disagree. I'm sure you have Leeds United fans saying the same thing. But here's the thing; top managers don't look at where you've been, they look at where you are.

And where we are, to an outsider, is a club who may or may not be here at the end of the season with no money to spend playing in a pissy two team league which brings untold hassle and stress with the only possible prize being the comb we'll win or lose to the other bald man.

We laughed when Coyle, Moyes, Lambert told the mhanks to go eff themselves. Until this tax issue is sorted, we're in exactly the ame boat.

You might be thinking that if McCoist goes we'll get some fantastic young manager. But the reality is Billy Davies.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 19:01
It's different times, no way for example will be McCoist be given even a fraction of the time Greig was given-we can see that by the reactions on here and the game has changed.

McCoist as I've said already is a fair reflection of where we are as a club, he wouldn't have been my first choice but you can see the rationale in appointing him.

Those with their heads up their arse over the current owner might well ask just exactly what will change if McCoist was sacked. We will be left with all of the same issues and challenges as a club.

I'm afraid the hardcore with the negative fixation on the manager are not really grasping that the replacement of McCoist is neither here nor there, it will take care of itself-McCoist will be judged on results.

But win or lose the title the hardcore should be asking where are we going as a club? Does that really lie fully at the door of McCoist?

We as fans can do nothing about the chairman's previous financial dealings. We can do nothing about the HMRC case. We can do nothing about where we will be as a club/business except hope for the best. I don't get why posters like you and Deedle feel it appropriate to join the eager Tim-led public stoning of Craig Whyte. What do you hope to gain from it? Respect from FFers for being first on here to criticise the new guy? Is that what you crave?

Whereas our on-field fortunes are in direct correlation with the team selection, the tactics and the approach. Under Ally McCoist, we have suffered appalling Cup results in three competitions. Now our previously impressive league results have slumped alarmingly. McCoist has shown nothing to suggest he can see what's going wrong, whereas all the fans could tell him exactly where we're weak; midfield and out wide.

That's why I focus my ire on McCoist. Whyte might prove to be Gerry Adams's secret son in time but, for now, I'll give him my tentative support.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 19:05
Oh. I don't doubt that. But decent ones? Well, that's where we disagree. I'm sure you have Leeds United fans saying the same thing. But here's the thing; top managers don't look at where you've been, they look at where you are.

And where we are, to an outsider, is a club who may or may not be here at the end of the season with no money to spend playing in a pissy two team league which brings untold hassle and stress with the only possible prize being the comb we'll win or lose to the other bald man.

We laughed when Coyle, Moyes, Lambert told the mhanks to go eff themselves. Until this tax issue is sorted, we're in exactly the ame boat.

You might be thinking that if McCoist goes we'll get some fantastic young manager. But the reality is Billy Davies.

Probably right. But would Davies really be any less an ambitious appointment than Ally McCoist was and is?

the bundy
28-11-2011, 19:07
Not one of us have stated we hate Ally so less of the sh-te

the Gub and his sheep cronies dont like McCoist , is that better .

Mr Super Bad
28-11-2011, 19:07
Probably right. But would Davies really be any less an ambitious appointment than Ally McCoist was and is?

No. Which would make change just now a change for change's sake.

I'm not being funny mate, but if you were in charge of the club for longer than than twenty minutes you'd have gone through more managers than McDonalds.

You seem to want to sack the manager every time somebody gets a corner against us.

usbear
28-11-2011, 19:16
mccoist is in the same boat as lennon

neither of them can afford anymore slip ups

it's hard to tell whether the team is in a slump or the signings are just pish and don't add anything

unfortunately only time will tell

90minbear
28-11-2011, 19:21
We as fans can do nothing about the chairman's previous financial dealings. We can do nothing about the HMRC case. We can do nothing about where we will be as a club/business except hope for the best. I don't get why posters like you and Deedle feel it appropriate to join the eager Tim-led public stoning of Craig Whyte. What do you hope to gain from it? Respect from FFers for being first on here to criticise the new guy? Is that what you crave?

Whereas our on-field fortunes are in direct correlation with the team selection, the tactics and the approach. Under Ally McCoist, we have suffered appalling Cup results in three competitions. Now our previously impressive league results have slumped alarmingly. McCoist has shown nothing to suggest he can see what's going wrong, whereas all the fans could tell him exactly where we're weak; midfield and out wide.

That's why I focus my ire on McCoist. Whyte might prove to be Gerry Adams's secret son in time but, for now, I'll give him my tentative support.

Does your tentative support mean none of us are allowed to question and scrutinise him. The same way we did with Murray. Who we all fell for thinking wonderful times were ahead. It was only reading the Gub's articles in FF that made me take a new look. I don't care who had bought our club. They need to know that we as a fanbase are not asleep this time.

dh1963
28-11-2011, 19:26
There are similarities that can be drawn, but its too early yet to say if the ending will be the same.

Greig's first season was ultimately unsuccessful for 3 main reasons:

Our goalscoring centre forward from the previous season took a huff and decided he was a centre half, and Greig was so scared of losing him he let him do it for a while.

The spine of our team had peaked, all great players but time was catching up with them.

He never found a replacement for himself, the man who would drag the team over the winning line when things were tight.

Maybe Jelavic isn't going to have as good a season as last, so that one could be similar.

Maybe this team has also peaked, together for too long and needs fresh blood we can't afford.

And maybe losing our captain from the starting XI has had a detrimental effect on the team in terms of leadership.

Like the OP, I'm really worried that things are about to go badly wrong. I don't think sacking the manager has any credibility when we're sitting clear at the top of the table, the time to make that judgement is after the season and not after a few hellish performances during the season.

Mr Super Bad
28-11-2011, 19:29
DH1963, that's far too sensible a post for FF!

DylanGer
28-11-2011, 19:37
We as fans can do nothing about the chairman's previous financial dealings. We can do nothing about the HMRC case. We can do nothing about where we will be as a club/business except hope for the best. I don't get why posters like you and Deedle feel it appropriate to join the eager Tim-led public stoning of Craig Whyte. What do you hope to gain from it? Respect from FFers for being first on here to criticise the new guy? Is that what you crave?

Whereas our on-field fortunes are in direct correlation with the team selection, the tactics and the approach. Under Ally McCoist, we have suffered appalling Cup results in three competitions. Now our previously impressive league results have slumped alarmingly. McCoist has shown nothing to suggest he can see what's going wrong, whereas all the fans could tell him exactly where we're weak; midfield and out wide.

That's why I focus my ire on McCoist. Whyte might prove to be Gerry Adams's secret son in time but, for now, I'll give him my tentative support.

What a crock...we could easily say we have no influence over McCoist's selections and tactics and yet your Tim-like crucifying of our manager continues...

On one hand we are just to simply accept some factors of influence at the club but on others we are to examine and decry as we like......it is ludicrous....McCoist deserves criticism and so does Whyte.

Plus you are missing the point...forget what Whyte has inherited and what he has done...like you do don't with McCoist and ask what is he going to do because that is what is important.

Phil Leotardo
28-11-2011, 19:42
I wonder, Gub, how many managers Rangers would have had if you were the one with your finger on the trigger.

bighuggybear
28-11-2011, 19:45
the Gub and his sheep cronies dont like McCoist , is that better .
Bundy I did not want McCoist as manager not because I do not like him I idolised him as a player.and as a Rangers supporter I want him to be successful.
Why did I not want him as a manager,I think he lacks the ruthlessness all successful managers need,it's just not in his nature,his loyalty to old pro,s like McCulloch is now getting embarrassing,his carbon copying of Walters tactics.
You can be playing rotten in Ally,s side for weeks and not get dropped it as though he is scared of upsetting players as we will see on Saturday,the team now needs major changes especially in midfield,I am positive he will change nothing.

mentalbox
28-11-2011, 19:52
wouldnt say jim blair was anything other than a committed rangers fan tbh .

think the view that john greig didnt havce cash to splash comes from a comparison against OUR later manages not the obes he tried to compete against , eg jim mclean and alex feguson . what you can say is that both of them were vg managers by scottish and above standards . now , id find impossible to make that claim for mccoist's current opponents .

ScottGer76
28-11-2011, 19:53
McCoist was the wrong choice as manager, why was he appointed to the job without any managerial experience? All the best manaers start small and develop until the dream job is offered. Sadly, he is using the same terrible system that Smith had us playing. Hi signings have been underwhelming and the losses in Europe are unforgiveable.

berkshiretrueblue
28-11-2011, 19:57
McCCoist will succeed or fail by his choice of team selections and tactics. Unfortunately continuing to play McCulloch who is now a liability to the team and Broadfoot who is an embarrassement to the Club could well be what ends up losing him his job.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 20:00
Does your tentative support mean none of us are allowed to question and scrutinise him. The same way we did with Murray. Who we all fell for thinking wonderful times were ahead. It was only reading the Gub's articles in FF that made me take a new look. I don't care who had bought our club. They need to know that we as a fanbase are not asleep this time.

There's scrutiny and there's actively wanting to see the club chairman crucified, which is where DylanGer and, surprisingly, Deedle appear to be. During the BBC documentary, where a Tim reporter tried to initiate criminal proceedings against the Rangers chairman for alleged financial impropriety years before he arrived at the club, a rather feeble-minded Rangers fans' spokesman appeared on the show backing the inquiry and stating how concerned he was by the allegations. And he was backed on here for doing so by the two posters I've mentioned, who saw nothing wrong in his actions. Shameful.

Ask any questions you please about Whyte but join in a Tim-led public assassination attempt? Not for me.

And for the record, I never wanted a spiv like Murray anywhere near the club. I never believed he had any right to own Rangers.

90minbear
28-11-2011, 20:02
McCoist was the wrong choice as manager, why was he appointed to the job without any managerial experience? All the best manaers start small and develop until the dream job is offered. Sadly, he is using the same terrible system that Smith had us playing. Hi signings have been underwhelming and the losses in Europe are unforgiveable.

He didn't get the signings he wanted. He got what was left in the bargain basement. Hardly his fault. Another poster who wants him sacked with not a clue who would take over.

cooper145
28-11-2011, 20:04
I agree he needs to stop picking duds, I would start with our gutless captain.

A tad harsh I feel. There are certainly others more worthy of the chop before Davis.

Cuddles
28-11-2011, 20:07
What a crock...we could easily say we have no influence over McCoist's selections and tactics and yet your Tim-like crucifying of our manager continues...

On one hand we are just to simply accept some factors of influence at the club but on others we are to examine and decry as we like......it is ludicrous....McCoist deserves criticism and so does Whyte.

Plus you are missing the point...forget what Whyte has inherited and what he has done...like you do don't with McCoist and ask what is he going to do because that is what is important.

We can't influence McCoist but he could start by picking the best players at his disposal. So why doesn't he? Whereas Whyte can do nothing even to influence the result of the HMRC case so naturally you keep criticising him for a mess which he inherited.

What is it you seek? Whyte to relinquish control of the club and go to prison, is that it? So someone else more to your liking can take over?

Sorry, what point have I missed about Whyte? You might want to re-write your last sentence, I'm not sure it makes sense.

90minbear
28-11-2011, 20:10
There's scrutiny and there's actively wanting to see the club chairman crucified, which is where DylanGer and, surprisingly, Deedle appear to be. During the BBC documentary, where a Tim reporter tried to initiate criminal proceedings against the Rangers chairman for alleged financial impropriety years before he arrived at the club, a rather feeble-minded Rangers fans' spokesman appeared on the show backing the inquiry and stating how concerned he was by the allegations. And he was backed on here for doing so by the two posters I've mentioned, who saw nothing wrong in his actions. Shameful.

Ask any questions you please about Whyte but join in a Tim-led public assassination attempt? Not for me.

And for the record, I never wanted a spiv like Murray anywhere near the club. I never believed he had any right to own Rangers.

More fool me then Cuddles. I didn't believe for a second he was a Rangers fan but I thought he was a wealthy business man.

The Flo signing though made me see sense. As for the court case against the BBC we can only wait and hope.

ScottGer76
28-11-2011, 20:12
He didn't get the signings he wanted. He got what was left in the bargain basement. Hardly his fault. Another poster who wants him sacked with not a clue who would take over.



Perhaps a more thorough search than gift wrapping the job to a former Ranger without any mangerial experience? I don't think I mentioned I want him sacked. What I do want is a complete over haul of our whole footballing operation.

Bobster
28-11-2011, 20:13
McCoist was the wrong choice as manager, why was he appointed to the job without any managerial experience? All the best manaers start small and develop until the dream job is offered. Sadly, he is using the same terrible system that Smith had us playing. Hi signings have been underwhelming and the losses in Europe are unforgiveable.

Guardiola? Kenny Dalglish?

McCoist has had us playing nice football in fits and starts and the players he originally targeted in the summer were interesting and would have done us a turn. However, the financial restrictions meant we were lacking sufficient funds and in MacKay and Bedoya it's looking as if he's panic bought and done a bit of bad business.

The signings of Goian and Bocanegra were good and i think Aluko will do well too.

He's said all the right things about the tempo of our play and you can see it coming through in fits and starts.

However, he simply has to stop picking McCulloch and Edu - at least one of them. They cancel each other out in midfield and we lack drive and even an attacking mentality with them in the side.

He's been unlucky with the injury to Naismith and also the fact that Ness can't seem to get himself fit has hampered him too.

IMO i would be happy with us stumbling to unconvincing victories and OF draw in January where he can do some deals in the transfer window. Sell Edu for the reported £3m and use it on a midfielder and a striker and maybe another wide player. The squad needs investment and i would be tempted to offload Healy, Broadfoot etc just to get them off the wage bill. I would keep Weir because of his influence in the dressing room - same goes for McCulloch.

There are some promising signs with McCoist - we've hit a bad patch which is a direct correlation with Naismith's injury. Stumble through the next few weeks, and get Wylde back for some more width, and let's see what he does in January. It's the business, and results, then that will dictate our season.

DylanGer
28-11-2011, 20:16
We can't influence McCoist but he could start by picking the best players at his disposal. So why doesn't he? Whereas Whyte can do nothing even to influence the result of the HMRC case so naturally you keep criticising him for a mess which he inherited.

What is it you seek? Whyte to relinquish control of the club and go to prison, is that it? So someone else more to your liking can take over?

Sorry, what point have I missed about Whyte? You might want to re-write your last sentence, I'm not sure it makes sense.

The final point was this....like McCoist you could argue Whyte has inherited a mess....and it was the plans were for the future that were important...not what has happened in the distant past.

My take on Whyte has been very clear for anybody paying attention.

He has a dubious past, he chooses to remain secretive about certain factors and been less than honest with the support , he has no clear future plan and has clearly contradicted himself constantly in a few short months. You get into the detail and it's a car crash and he's actually cost us more cash problems with legal cases and fines created out of his own mistakes irrespective of the carnage he inherited.

These are facts and there not Tim driven or created and I'm pro-Rangers which is more important that anti or pro the owner.

boabsybear
28-11-2011, 20:20
I honestly cannot see where the "promising signs with McCoist" bit comes from.

90minbear
28-11-2011, 20:21
Perhaps a more thorough search than gift wrapping the job to a former Ranger without any mangerial experience? I don't think I mentioned I want him sacked. What I do want is a complete over haul of our whole footballing operation.

The Barcelona manager hasn't done too bad with little managerial experience. Far too early to make a judgement on him. Especially when he had to settle on the bottom of his transfer list.

bilkobear
28-11-2011, 20:31
As much as the OP is often right about certain issues, I think that he is chancing his arm with this comparison.

You could just as easily find certain comparisons between McCoist and Struth.

It is early days and Rangers have often made a success of promoting managers from within.

laudofan
28-11-2011, 20:41
McCoist is on track to piss away a 12 point lead over Celtic before New Year.



This "12-point lead" thing needs to be nailed for good.

It was only ever really nine in effect. No-one's happy it's now four, and the last two games have been disappointing, but why do people want to spin things to make them sound worse than they really are?

sirdrinksalot
28-11-2011, 20:43
To draw parallels with Greig is simply outrageous at this stage, as mentioned earlier in the thread Greig had 5 years, McCoist has had 5 months, of course the recent slump is worrying, but the facts are we are top of the league and we have lost 1 game, we have faced the great unwashed once and swamped them to win comfortably.

I get the impression if we were 4 points behind and had a recent mini revival, folk on here would be telling us that the signs were already there and we are 2nd for a reason, Lennon has the measure of him etc etc. The bottom line is we have to win the title and we are not in bad shape to do that.

For the last 3 seasons, when posters argued the case for Smith and the detractors said we wouldn't win the title, the constant saying was 'head in the sand'

The Broken Gramophone
28-11-2011, 20:44
The final point was this....like McCoist you could argue Whyte has inherited a mess....and it was the plans were for the future that were important...not what has happened in the distant past.

My take on Whyte has been very clear for anybody paying attention.

He has a dubious past, he chooses to remain secretive about certain factors and been less than honest with the support , he has no clear future plan and has clearly contradicted himself constantly in a few short months. You get into the detail and it's a car crash and he's actually cost us more cash problems with legal cases and fines created out of his own mistakes irrespective of the carnage he inherited.

These are facts and there not Tim driven or created and I'm pro-Rangers which is more important that anti or pro the owner.

You seem excessively critical of those mistakes though, unhealthily so. Binning Bain the way he did is an example. So it cost us a few quid in legal fees? Worth every openny to see that chancer get his comeuppance, I would say.

You and Deedle might be right, Whyte might be a complete chancer. Then again, he might just be a fan who wants the club to succeed. You guys have real suspicion of his motives, whereas I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and I'll back him against the corrupt BBC. Whereas when I criticise McCoist, I don't doubt his motives and I certainly wouldn't join a campaign to see him jailed. I just want him to put his stamp on the team and stop copying Walter's mistakes before it's too late.

The Broken Gramophone
28-11-2011, 20:46
This "12-point lead" thing needs to be nailed for good.

It was only ever really nine in effect. No-one's happy it's now four, and the last two games have been disappointing, but why do people want to spin things to make them sound worse than they really are?

Only nine in effect? That sounds like Timmy-style positive spin!

It was a twelve-point lead mate, game in hand or not.

laudofan
28-11-2011, 20:50
Only nine in effect? That sounds like Timmy-style positive spin!

It was a twelve-point lead mate, game in hand or not.

Your rationale is not too sound.

In terms of points dropped it was only ever a nine-point lead. I would say it's you that's spinning it to say that Celtic were likely to drop points in a home game v Dunfermline (their "game in hand or not"). The bookies' percentage odds of that happening was probably 20% or less.

Talk of less-than-genuine leads is best left to Chick Young et al.

By your logic, if Rangers win on Saturday and go 7 points clear before Celtic play then Ally will be a hero again for increasing the lead?

Gunther Netzer
28-11-2011, 20:55
Taking into account the financial circumstances surrounding the club and the negative press must have an effect on the players, they have to show more pride and passion in their performances to prove they are Rangers players worthy to wear the jersey. Steep learning curve for Ally, who needs the support's backing of the team more than ever to overcome our foes. Aye Ready. WATP

sonowilliam2
28-11-2011, 21:15
There is one massive element which has seen to be omitted from the OP,back in those days we were more than capable of matching the scum with regards to finance

53easy
28-11-2011, 21:16
Only nine in effect? That sounds like Timmy-style positive spin!

It was a twelve-point lead mate, game in hand or not.

It was actually 15 points with two games in hand.

watty1979
28-11-2011, 21:20
I get the impression you couldn't wait for a post like Gub's so you could come on here displaying your stoicism in the face of adversity.

The Gub supports the team because he loves them and wants them to succeed. He speaks out when he sees theam mis-managed and so he should.

It appears some people on here are Ally McCoist fans first and foremost, regardless of how badly he does his job.

Are you the gub's gub?

DylanGer
28-11-2011, 21:27
You seem excessively critical of those mistakes though, unhealthily so. Binning Bain the way he did is an example. So it cost us a few quid in legal fees? Worth every openny to see that chancer get his comeuppance, I would say.

You and Deedle might be right, Whyte might be a complete chancer. Then again, he might just be a fan who wants the club to succeed. You guys have real suspicion of his motives, whereas I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and I'll back him against the corrupt BBC. Whereas when I criticise McCoist, I don't doubt his motives and I certainly wouldn't join a campaign to see him jailed. I just want him to put his stamp on the team and stop copying Walter's mistakes before it's too late.

I think you might under estimate the money Bain will cost us. Very probably a lot more than a negotiated settlement which was the way to go, frozen assets and bad publicity were added bonuses we didn't require.

I'll be honest I think the support were so desperate for a shining light to save us and are so scared of the thought we've been sold a dummy they are really not thinking this out,at all.

We are talking about share movements being frozen and fines from the stock market because Whyte failed to declare his seven year ban.

We've lost the plot because he is now the owner, there's little doubt in my mind he wouldn't be owner if what has came to light was known before.

What does it tell you about someone who constantly moves the goal posts on the future in a short time and who has tried to hide a murky past? I think that tells you a lot.

People lump me and Deedle together (and I respect Deedle a lot) on Whyte but we've always had slightly different takes on Whyte.

I think the real worry with Whyte is you can forget the 7 year ban and the legal wrangles that have emerged since he arrived...forget all that and what do you have? What is Whyte's plan? I don't think he has much more than a very rough plan of where we are going and that more than anything worries me. In my book he is making it up as he goes along, there is no evidence to suggest anything else.

You know in many ways Whyte should have been able to walk into Ibrox and coldly and calmly went about his business and yet there has barely been a good news story emerging out of Ibrox since we resigned the three players and appointed Smith/Russell...those were events I gave him credit for...everything since then has been turmoil and bad news. I also think that tells a tale.

isawthat
28-11-2011, 21:55
I also think comparing 5 years of Greig to 5 months of McCoist is harsh.

Don't be reasonable, it's the Gub's rant you have just read. If there is something negative to say, you can always rely on the Gub, he probably has had this on his hard drive for weeks, just waiting for us to drop a few points.

lairdbond
28-11-2011, 22:19
Here’s where the story ends

On the face of it, there wouldn’t appear to be too many similarities between John Greig and Ally McCoist, other than that John Greig signed Ally McCoist for Rangers.

But then you delve deeper and you find ironies but perhaps nothing else. Well, me being me, I’ll disagree.

It would be a fair argument that both, overall, were the most charismatic and legendary players of their respective Rangers playing eras.

Both have stepped into the managerial hot seat at Ibrox as their first stab as managers in their own right. Although we know Ally has played the understudy role, blah, blah, blah.

There wouldn’t appear to be many similarities in their first seasons in charge either. Under John Greig, we had the best ever back to back European victories in our history, but played lamentably, domestically (there has to be a poem in there somewhere)

Under Ally McCoist, on the other hand we have had arguably our worst back to back European humiliations but started off domestically, rather successfully. If you don’t include the debacle at Falkirk, that is.

In John Greig’s first season as manager, we allowed utter dross at the cesspit to win the league. Time after time we had chances to put that title to bed but failed to meet the challenge. That season ended with one of the biggest OF disgraces in our history.

In Ally McCoist’s first season as manager, there is every chance the same scenario could come to pass. Whilst it’s not quite time after time just yet, the complete shambles and utter disgrace that was St Mirren and St Johnstone at Ibrox should at least have been wake up calls.

Alas, yesterday at Kilmarnock a team that lost six goals in their last home fixture would seem to prove that not to be the case.

Time proved that John Greig didn’t realise the genius at work we had in Davie Cooper. Just couldn’t get the best out of our moody blue, despite him scoring the greatest goal in OF history and under John Greig’s watch as well.

We don’t need time to prove that McCulloch and Edu shouldn’t be kicking a ball for Rangers in the first place, far less being in the same starting line up. Sticking with this pair should see the manager lose his cushy billet.

There is also a retrospective view that John Greig was knackered by financial restrictions. That was due to the building of the new Ibrox. You know the one that Murray didn’t build.

It was of course absolute horse buckey. Aberdeen and Dundee Utd weren’t in the hunt when it came to our finances, and it was John Greig himself who shelled out record Scottish transfer fees at the time for dross like Ian Redford and Craig Paterson.

Now, I’m a fair minded sort of cove and it has to be said that Ally McCoist really is working on a shoe string budget, but he’s shown himself capable of buying dross as well.

Ironies or similarities? You decide.


However, there is one major difference between 1978/79 and 2011/12. Back then we didn’t have a voice, Dom Jolly didn’t have a phone, far less access the internet.

We were treated to a yahoo called Paddy the Maddy having a pop and a gloat at Rangers on Jim Blair’s Saturday letters page. Blair of course being another kiddy on Prod, who graduated from the same school of journalism as the Dungster.

Paddy the Maddy’s rants would be answered back the following week by an Edward Bear. I have my own suspicions who that Mr Bear was, but hey, he was up for the fight and that’s all that matters.

Back then five years of my following Rangers were blighted by John Greig’s management. At no time was he ever taken out of his comfort zone by the upper management.

If Ally McCoist and his managerial team think the dross and humiliations we have endured thus far are acceptable, then we are all going to be in for a bumpy ride.

I think you make a number of fair, and salient, points. People of my age group - 50 plus - remember the shambles of 1978-1986 (I know that Jock Wallace returned and could not arrest the decline despite trying to sign John Brown, Gordon Durie and Craig Levein) and how massive investment, progressive board, and dynamic management team were required to restore Rangers' rightful position.

I did have some sympathy with John Greig - split board, no effective assistant, interference from Waddell - as I have sympathy for McCoist. My argument is that neither had managed a club before Rangers and it's a tough one to cut your teeth upon. Having said that, Souness and Smith did not manage a team before Rangers!

I just have a "gut feeling" that it's not going to work. I've nothing to base this on other than being a supporter since 1968, and having watched the ebbs and flows over the period.

Just an opinion.

sam_cooke
28-11-2011, 22:37
I dont believe Greig ever recovered from that 4-2 debacle, I was fortunate in some ways that I missed out on that match, my old man for some reason didnt feel it was right to take me. I recall a radio blackout and with no teletext of mobile phones around back then I had to wait until my Da and Brother came home. The dejection in my fathers face told me all I needed to know:(

I was also comparing the two myself today, If McCoist blows the league after such a lead I dont reckon he will recover from it.

His refusal to accept that some things dont work may well cost him, also his brainwashed Walter syndrome of keeping every man in the box while defending corners shows he is still under the influence of his mentor :(

sam_cooke
28-11-2011, 22:41
Don't be reasonable, it's the Gub's rant you have just read. If there is something negative to say, you can always rely on the Gub, he probably has had this on his hard drive for weeks, just waiting for us to drop a few points.

However it cannot be denied that under McCoists tenure so far we have suffered absolute embarressing results, The signs have been there for weeks that we were an accident waiting to happen, sadly the warning signs were not heeded.

SpongebobSquarePass
28-11-2011, 23:12
McCoist was the wrong choice as manager, why was he appointed to the job without any managerial experience? All the best manaers start small and develop until the dream job is offered. Sadly, he is using the same terrible system that Smith had us playing. Hi signings have been underwhelming and the losses in Europe are unforgiveable.

Hardly. He was appointed to the job with no managerial experience because we are basically skint and play in a duff league where not many half decent established managers would be seen dead.

He was also the best man for the job having served a long apprenticeship - albeit under the one dimensional Walter Smith.

Smith guided us to equally big embarrassments in Europe, but few said that he was the wrong choice as manager.

I think you are being very unfair on a guy who has been in the job for just a few months.

sonowilliam2
28-11-2011, 23:23
However it cannot be denied that under McCoists tenure so far we have suffered absolute embarressing results, The signs have been there for weeks that we were an accident waiting to happen, sadly the warning signs were not heeded.

Don't you agree though Sam that Ally should at the very least be allowed some time,after all Greig was allowed the five seasons with lesser financial constraints over our main rivals ?

01Sleeman
28-11-2011, 23:25
I was there at the second leg v Inter in 84 when Ally got pelters just for coming on as a sub (having missed a sitter in the first game). I was there at the cup match against Dundee a few months later. How any player could bounce back from that, I don't know. But bounce back he did.
The next month will be crucial for him. He needs to bounce back as manager and get the players bouncing with him. He must learn from his mistakes and the players must learn from theirs.
He doesn't have a Gough, a Gascoigne or a Laudrup however he has some decent, capable and on the face of it, committed players.
It's worth remembering how we were written off before the LCF last season and how we came back from that.
We ain't done yet. Far from it.

Bowery Boys
28-11-2011, 23:56
I dont believe Greig ever recovered from that 4-2 debacle, I was fortunate in some ways that I missed out on that match, my old man for some reason didnt feel it was right to take me. I recall a radio blackout and with no teletext of mobile phones around back then I had to wait until my Da and Brother came home. The dejection in my fathers face told me all I needed to know:(

I was also comparing the two myself today, If McCoist blows the league after such a lead I dont reckon he will recover from it.

His refusal to accept that some things dont work may well cost him, also his brainwashed Walter syndrome of keeping every man in the box while defending corners shows he is still under the influence of his mentor :(

Do you have any idea why they do this? And plenty of sides do it btw.

Greenock_Ger1983
29-11-2011, 00:31
Another comedy thread from the gub. You can tell he's been dying to post this for ages and thinks this is now the chance. Really don't know we're to begin with that nonsense.

The_Gub
29-11-2011, 16:28
Another comedy thread from the gub. You can tell he's been dying to post this for ages and thinks this is now the chance. Really don't know we're to begin with that nonsense.

No, please start and rip it to shreds.

The stage IS yours.

dublinbluenose
29-11-2011, 16:44
I dont believe Greig ever recovered from that 4-2 debacle, I was fortunate in some ways that I missed out on that match, my old man for some reason didnt feel it was right to take me. I recall a radio blackout and with no teletext of mobile phones around back then I had to wait until my Da and Brother came home. The dejection in my fathers face told me all I needed to know:(

I was also comparing the two myself today, If McCoist blows the league after such a lead I dont reckon he will recover from it.

His refusal to accept that some things dont work may well cost him, also his brainwashed Walter syndrome of keeping every man in the box while defending corners shows he is still under the influence of his mentor :(

spot on that was as close as he got and a that was down to the fact that he inhereted Jock Wallaces treble winning team which greig then dismantled and we nosed dived the following season. we never got close to another title until 86-87

ibroxonian
29-11-2011, 17:18
Confession time

My "wilderness years" followed that 4-2 game. Used to get to 40 - 50 games a season, walked out of the piggery that night and said I wouldn't go to another game til JG left. And didn't. Looking back, not sure how I did it but was around 20, so other things distracted me

Started back when Wallace came back and have been a regular ever since (albeit from 400 miles away for the last 16 years)

Anyway, have said for a year that I don't think Alastair is the man for the job. Rangers isn't a job for a rookie manager, don't care how long he worked with Walter

Loved both as players, so hope I am wrong, but fear that McCoist doesn't have the nous to turn around things when they are going against us - Cup games when WS had to take over (final v St Mirren for example), Europe this year etc

The Treble Kings
29-11-2011, 17:34
John Greig had more than five years in the job. Ally McCoist has hardly had that many months! As said earlier, I suspect the original poster has been positively itching to put that post up for weeks.

The Broken Gramophone
29-11-2011, 17:56
John Greig had more than five years in the job. Ally McCoist has hardly had that many months! As said earlier, I suspect the original poster has been positively itching to put that post up for weeks.

So what does Ally McCoist need from us? More time to see if Lee McCulloch can come good in the centre-mid role?

Shall we give them both 5 years?

New York Bear
29-11-2011, 18:05
No, please start and rip it to shreds.

The stage IS yours.

Ah, so ad hominem arguments are only allowed when you are the one presenting them? :p

laudofan
29-11-2011, 18:46
So what does Ally McCoist need from us? More time to see if Lee McCulloch can come good in the centre-mid role?

Shall we give them both 5 years?

Maybe not, but giving Ally a season would be a start.

If Rangers win the SPL then the season will be a success. In fact, it will be a very big success given the off-field problems currently still on-going.

The Broken Gramophone
29-11-2011, 18:51
Maybe not, but giving Ally a season would be a start.

If Rangers win the SPL then the season will be a success. In fact, it will be a very big success given the off-field problems currently still on-going.

I agree totally.

But if we fail to win the league after early exits from both Euro competitions and a humiliating LC loss to a Div 1 team, the season will have been an utter disaster.

Fielding Lee McCulloch makes the task of winning the SPL far more difficult. If Ally picks him and we fail to finish as champions, it's Ally's cock on the block.

The_Gub
29-11-2011, 18:56
John Greig had more than five years in the job. Ally McCoist has hardly had that many months! As said earlier, I suspect the original poster has been positively itching to put that post up for weeks.

And the OP says you are talking guff.

If you can't see that the post was written on Monday morning, as a reaction to Sunday then I venture the notion that someone in your family gets you a voucher for Specsavers for Crimbo.

Davie Wilson
29-11-2011, 19:30
I haven't been able to get the similarities ut my head since the Falkirk debacle.

Ally should never have been appointed in the first place, there is absolutely no reason or vidence he was capible of the job. Better managers of a Rangers background like Billy Reid and Jimmy Calderwood are/were available. And most of you will have more ambition than that, but a cash strapped club, either of those two would have more credentials than Ally.

I fear history will be repeating itself, as comedy and farce rolled into one.

laudofan
29-11-2011, 19:35
Ally should never have been appointed in the first place, there is absolutely no reason or vidence he was capible of the job.

As others have pointed out ... the same could be said of Guardiola at Barca?

Davie Wilson
29-11-2011, 19:56
As others have pointed out ... the same could be said of Guardiola at Barca?

Yea, suppose you're right mate.

That Edu / McCulloch centre mid combination reminds me of Barca









The Barca rugby team.


:(

laudofan
29-11-2011, 21:10
Yea, suppose you're right mate.

That Edu / McCulloch centre mid combination reminds me of Barca









The Barca rugby team.


:(

I'm only addressing the point about "lack of experience" not necessarily being an indicator of how well a manager will do (over time).

Your midfield comparison is hardly justified. I think most people would agree that Guardiola inherited a stronger squad than McCoist (and has a few more Euros to spend).

williamstown
30-11-2011, 00:27
Both men were great players for the club, both had to take over from managerial
Legends after they left,
both have different personalities,

Greig inherited a good side from Wallace and results in Europe that season
proved the case,Greigs fault's were a naivety in management which was
understandable to most fans who excused him the Legend as time went by
for being flung in the deep end by Waddell,his other fault was probably being
too stubborn when he chose not to pick the best players in big games because of it,if anybody remembers the cup final and then the replay against Dundee Utd in 1981 then that was Greig the manager,garbage boring 0-0 draw then a 4-1 show with a scintillating World class performance from the man he chose to leave out the first game and not for the first time,Cooper


McCoist also inherited a winning squad from Smith although I would say the side that Greig took over was way finer in quality than McCoist was left with,everybody marvels at what Walter Smith did here when he came back without being overly excited at the football on show sometimes,McCoist also has it over Greig by being an undermanager or second to Smith for four years but to me that makes it all the more important for him to be successful straight away for the club,he has to win this league,its the only show in town this season,the fact is and time will tell what McCoist has learned, if he hasn't and fails then he wont get the five too long years Mr Greig got at the healm .