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superstanko
15-06-2010, 16:44
Updated on 26th August following the shambolic display by Scottish clubs in European competition this season.

Some of the below are null points (and Germany didn't actually win the world cup), but our the Scottish league needs to change along with changes being endlessly discussed, but never actioned, at the SFA. I predict this season will see the lowest ever average crowds in probably getting on a few decades at most clubs. Clubs need to take responsibility for dragging the nation out of the dungeon that we are. Trying to improve the league will certainly help that.


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With all the coverage about Germany looking impressive in their opening game, albeit against a mediocre Australia side, is it time for more domestic leagues to model themselves on the oh-so-efficient Germans?

You may question why draw comparisons between the national team and the domestic league – after all it hasn’t always worked out that way. However, the German team is almost unique (bar those crazy North Koreans and England) in that every member of the WC squad plays in the domestic league after Michael Ballack’s injury sustained in the FA cup final ruled him out of the self titled greatest show on earth.

From my slightly obscured vantage point here in the UK, where my coverage of the Bundesliga is somewhat limited, they appear to do everything correct.

1.The stadia are top notch, helped by the 2006 WC with options for the different category of fan. Take the Westfalenstadion and the 24,000 capacity Südtribüne terracing whilst still having standard and premium priced seats.
2. The ticket prices appear to be fairly reasonable – on the above terracing at Dortmund’s ground a season ticket was available for £200 a few years back. Excellent value for money. Naturally, you will pay more for ‘better’ seats but making season tickets available at the bottom end of the pricing scale helps to remove the trend of making football an elitist sport, almost being reserved for the middle classes.
3. Effort is made to accommodate the football fan. Transport to and from the grounds is fantastic and can be easily combined with your match ticket. I live in Newcastle and, to the city councils credit, for an extra £10 on your season ticket you get public transport between 3 hours prior to kick off and 3 hours after full time for free during the season (St James metro is also tiled in Black and white with images of their latest Messiah’s). Compare and contrast to the farce of the numerous idle police hanging around Buchanan St subway on a Rangers match day and the ever increasing price to alight at Ibrox for “Bellahouston Park”.
4. The package on offer is good – the number of top internationals playing in the league is growing. Robben, Ribery, Dzeko as prime foreign examples with Lahm, Klose and Ozil being ‘local lads’.
5. Match day atmosphere is fantastic – anyone who has attended any of our German based champions league games in recent years will see how good it is. The large singing sections, generally with the fans standing (few problems seem to occur) with crowd-conducting lunatics on megaphones adding to the atmosphere. Stuttgart fans at Ibrox in recent years have been praised for their efforts. Add to that, the German fans are trusted to be able to have a beer at the game – shock horror imagine having that in Scotland.
6. Fan ownership. We all know about Hamburg’s model which has been debated to death on here. Although not for every club, numerous ones make the effort to involve the fans.

I know this model would be difficult to implement in Scotland – it helps that Germany has a huge population to support this coupled with high TV revenue. But clubs MUST make more of an effort to change their ways.

But compare and contrast to the
• English Premiership – a league built on debt. High ticket prices, officious policing and a stale & sterile atmosphere at many grounds. Compare Arsenals cheapest season ticket being £1000 and a pint in Wembley being a fiver and not being allowed anywhere you can view the pitch.
• The Spanish league – in almost as much debt as the EPL, numerous crumbling stadium and a collection of clubs finding it near impossible to compete with the Big 2.

German football is the way to go for me – and in my eyes this model may result in the national team reaping the rewards this year.

Forever and ever,
Superstanko.

MoodyBlue11
15-06-2010, 16:58
in a word - Absolutely !!!

very jealous of their whole set up

Kiery
15-06-2010, 16:59
Good post mate and I agree with a lot of it but I don't see how the ticket prices, travel and match day atmosphere etc is the model that has helped the German national team become what it is.

From a fan's perspective it does look good and better than what we have. I have never been to game in Germany so I don't have an opinion on it.

Jamesie83
15-06-2010, 17:01
I'm inclined to agree. I also like the model on which the clubs are run, which would make it impossible to run up debt in order to compete at the top level.

The most appealing league in Europe as far as I'm concerned, and only wish there was more coverage in the UK, but I can't see that happening.

chateaubleu
15-06-2010, 17:01
I'd just like a beer at a game. :(

Mad Broon
15-06-2010, 17:06
Very good article.

On a related note, on the coverage available in the UK. Do you think that Sky will look into bringing the Bundesliga to their programming? Increasing the profile of it in the UK?

Though to be fair, ESPN's coverage of it is really good based on last season, long may it continue.

bluestreak
15-06-2010, 17:16
Great article,yes they are the model,just in case others are not aware,When Helmut Schon was national Manager, every German team had to play the way he played the national side,I am out the German circle nowadays, but I like to believe that the system still holds good,imagine every German from Senior to minor league all playing the same format.

superstanko
15-06-2010, 17:17
Good post mate and I agree with a lot of it but I don't see how the ticket prices, travel and match day atmosphere etc is the model that has helped the German national team become what it is.

From a fan's perspective it does look good and better than what we have. I have never been to game in Germany so I don't have an opinion on it.

I believe that the match day experience and affilaition with the club helps to bring in more fans. More fans is more money. More money results in a better quality of player coming into the league. Better players is better product on the pitch and therefore more fans. Ever increasing standard means the top players are willing to stay in the home league, rather than leg it abroad as we see with local talent from other nations.

iaatpies
15-06-2010, 17:17
Yes.

Rules about financial responsibility.
A regional pyramid system beyond the top 2 divisions.
Better facilities for fans.
A focus on matchday atmosphere.
Better facilities for players.

Its a fantastic league and they deserve not only credit but success for their national team.

superstanko
15-06-2010, 17:22
Very good article.

On a related note, on the coverage available in the UK. Do you think that Sky will look into bringing the Bundesliga to their programming? Increasing the profile of it in the UK?

Though to be fair, ESPN's coverage of it is really good based on last season, long may it continue.

I'll be honest and say I don't have ESPN as I had to choose between that and sky sports.

But I do believe that we will see more and more coverage of it in years to come. It's a sellable product and with kick off times that vary with the traditional UK there could be a place for it.

The_Gub
15-06-2010, 17:26
Very interesting post/article.

We might like them, we may not like them.

Whatever, they do not give a toss. They do what is in their best interests.

superstanko
15-06-2010, 17:54
Very interesting post/article.

We might like them, we may not like them.

Whatever, they do not give a toss. They do what is in their best interests.

For reference I've no issue with the gerrys!

For the older bears, was the Bundesliga historically very strong?

GingerFurball
15-06-2010, 17:57
For reference I've no issue with the gerrys!

For the older bears, was the Bundesliga historically very strong?

Yes.

Back in the days where it was the Champions Cup, the UEFA Cup was the acid test for the strength of your domestic league - and the Bundesliga sides won it more often than not, particularly in the 1970s and 80s.

super_ally_the2nd
15-06-2010, 18:36
in a word, yes

would love to attend a game in germany

FFS, seen videos from a 3rd division game and it was still a crowd of 15,000 going nuts:eek::D

cooler_king
15-06-2010, 19:07
Great article and agree with everything in it

Been lucky enough to take in a bundesliga game and the atmosphere was superb and the facilities second to none

C_K

Blackwood_Teddybear
15-06-2010, 19:08
German football is fabulous and im a major fan.
The set-up should be what Scotland looks at.

You know what, screw the money and maybe sacrifice European success and lets get fans going back to the games, focus on youth and improve the quality. If we do that and set the league up correctly the money will come flooding in.

Jacka87
15-06-2010, 19:41
I have to say great article and gave me a bit to think about. I watched a couple of games last season on ESPN but might be making an effort to watch some more.

With regards to replicating this in scotland, well i have to say that cheap tickets and good public transport to games is a defo improvement that we should include! After all too many games in Scotland have nobody in attendence unless the oldfirm are visiting. Cheaper tickets with more people turning up would increase the atmosphere and would increase the specticle. After a while the tickets would be in demand and prices could rise steadily again if the demand is still high enough. Public transport can only help and the fact that it would result in improved services for the rest of the time as well is a bonus - football giving bk to the country wow think it will ever happen???!

I also agree that clubs should not be run into debt and thats a great concept. I hate the fact that clubs like man c think they have made it now they haveloads of cash. In a few years they will be in a ridiculous position when the finance is pulled as it has been at our club, pompey and even Man U & Liverpool are struggling, as well as Valencia etc in spain. Would be ideal if the clubs didnt go nuts then spend years struggling after!

The number of games per year is also good as it means that the national team can have rest periods before big qualifiers etc and the same for when our top clubs compete in europe.

Overall great model in certain ways but i cant help but feel that more needs to be considered first before we switch to what seems perfect!

Cuellar
15-06-2010, 21:45
most entertaining league in euope for me. i love spanish football but when the big 2 play its predictible whereas in germany bayern and the other tops sides have to work hard to beat even the teams in relegation trouble

Earl of Leven
15-06-2010, 21:53
For SPL there is NOTHING to be gained from any 'EPL model'. The Bundesliga is where we have to look: pricing, terracing, transport, youth development, clubs having to supporter involvement, clubs not allowed to trade in debt etc....the answers lie there.

rosstheger
15-06-2010, 21:57
A very good article.

I'm sick of repeating myself to an extent. Scottish Football is in a real state and we need to follow a model like the Bundesliga. The short term goal should be to attract supporters to the stadiums and make it more enjoyable for the fans.

The SPL needs to grow some balls IMO. Our game is under-valued by Sky and ESPN and I expect they'll arrange another shitty TV deal when the time comes. £1m a year just isn't enough.

Earl of Leven
15-06-2010, 21:58
Ross

The only way forward is to get more fans through the gate....and allow them to make an atmosphere. It all follows from there....

rosstheger
15-06-2010, 22:01
Ross

The only way forward is to get more fans through the gate....and allow them to make an atmosphere. It all follows from there....

Totally,

I do believe that we need to redevelop many of our stadiums. Would I rather watch the game on TV or try and survive sitting in a gazeebo stand at Hamilton or Falkirk?

Lowering the ticket prices may result in lost revenue just now, but the TV deal and sponsorship should be the main revenue coming in. We shouldn't need to be relying on charging fans £25 each week to make money.

gorams_glayva
15-06-2010, 23:47
Over here in the US of A we get..

EPL
SPL (at NARSA clubs)
Serie A
La Liga
eridivisie (sp)
Bundesliga
Argie
Brazilian league



Without shadow of a doubt, best games week after week are the Bundesliga. Great skill, pace and crowd atmosphere. Exciting as fook. Honarable mention to the Argies, but think thats just because they have the best crowds :D

bigkahunarab
15-06-2010, 23:48
With all the coverage about Germany looking impressive in their opening game, albeit against a mediocre Australia side, is it time for more domestic leagues to model themselves on the oh-so-efficient Germans?

You may question why draw comparisons between the national team and the domestic league – after all it hasn’t always worked out that way. However, the German team is almost unique (bar those crazy North Koreans) in that every member of the WC squad plays in the domestic league after Michael Ballack’s injury sustained in the FA cup final ruled him out of the self titled greatest show on earth.

From my slightly obscured vantage point here in the UK, where coverage of the Bundesliga is somewhat limited, they appear to do everything correct.

1.The stadia are top notch, helped by the 2006 WC with options for the different category of fan. Take the Westfalenstadion and the 24,000 capacity Südtribüne terracing whilst still having standard and premium priced seats.
2. The ticket prices appear to be fairly reasonable – on the above terracing at Dortmund’s ground a season ticket was available for £200 a few years back. Excellent value for money. Naturally, you will pay more for ‘better’ seats but making season tickets available at the bottom end of the pricing scale helps to remove the trend of making football an elitist sport, almost being reserved for the middle classes.
3. Effort is made to accommodate the football fan. Transport to and from the grounds is fantastic and can be easily combined with your match ticket. I live in Newcastle and, to the city councils credit, for an extra £10 on your season ticket you get public transport between 3 hours prior to kick off and 3 hours after full time for free during the season (St James metro is also tiled in Black and white with images of their latest Messiah’s). Compare and contrast to the farce of the numerous idle police hanging around Buchanan St subway on a Rangers match day and the ever increasing price to alight at Ibrox for “Bellahouston Park”.
4. The package on offer is good – the number of top internationals playing in the league is growing. Robben, Ribery, Dzeko as prime foreign examples with Lahm, Klose and Ozil being ‘local lads’.
5. Match day atmosphere is fantastic – anyone who has attended any of our German based champions league games in recent years will see how good it is. The large singing sections, generally with the fans standing (few problems seem to occur) with crowd-conducting lunatics on megaphones adding to the atmosphere. Stuttgart fans at Ibrox in recent years have been praised for their efforts. Add to that, the German fans are trusted to be able to have a beer at the game – shock horror imagine having that in Scotland.
6. Fan ownership. We all know about Hamburg’s model which has been debated to death on here. Although not for every club, numerous ones make the effort to involve the fans.

I know this model would be difficult to implement in Scotland – it helps that Germany has a huge population to support this coupled with high TV revenue. But clubs MUST make more of an effort to change their ways.

But compare and contrast to the
• English Premiership – a league built on debt. High ticket prices, officious policing and a stale & sterile atmosphere at many grounds. Compare Arsenals cheapest season ticket being £1000 and a pint in Wembley being a fiver and not being allowed anywhere you can view the pitch.
• The Spanish league – in almost as much debt as the EPL, numerous crumbling stadium and a collection of clubs finding it near impossible to compete with the Big 2.

German football is the way to go for me – and in my eyes this model may result in the national team reaping the rewards this year.

Forever and ever,
Superstanko.

What have they ever won:D At football I mean:D

ray mac
16-06-2010, 17:38
Great article,yes they are the model,just in case others are not aware,When Helmut Schon was national Manager, every German team had to play the way he played the national side,I am out the German circle nowadays, but I like to believe that the system still holds good,imagine every German from Senior to minor league all playing the same format.

I am glad someone hit on the coaching aspect. Being a larger country with a larger population there would be more players available to select from and develop. Playing the same system brings benefits so when is the Scottish FA going to develop a similar plan. German kids have computers too so that is not an excuse.We are a small nation but so are the Dutch and the Danes etc(no excuse here either) but they all seem able to develop players and national teams that can compete on the world stage.
If the calibre of play was at the same level as Germany then maybe we could attract better players and coaches then businesses would be interested in putting real money into our game.
We all know this but will it ever change?

super_ally_the2nd
16-06-2010, 18:37
I am glad someone hit on the coaching aspect. Being a larger country with a larger population there would be more players available to select from and develop. Playing the same system brings benefits so when is the Scottish FA going to develop a similar plan. German kids have computers too so that is not an excuse.We are a small nation but so are the Dutch and the Danes etc(no excuse here either) but they all seem able to develop players and national teams that can compete on the world stage.
If the calibre of play was at the same level as Germany then maybe we could attract better players and coaches then businesses would be interested in putting real money into our game.
We all know this but will it ever change?

The Netherlands have a population of around 16 million, but invest in facilities and reguarly make the major tournaments and have produced great players down the years

Denmark has a similar population to Scotland, but invest in facilities and are at the big tournaments more often than not and like the Dutch have produced some greats

Slovenia has a population of just over 2 million with 40,000 registered players - 6 years ago Scotland laboured to a 0-0 draw at Hampden with them and in 2010 Slovenia are in the World Cup

Scotland is only just now thinking about investing in facilities (such as Toryglen, across from Hampden) when they should have been in place probably 30 years ago - instead we've had to put up with all talk and no action as it means that certain people would have to move aside.

Until self-preservation gets to f*ck, we'll continually be left behind when the big tournaments come around, and not just at international level

bear.ranger
16-06-2010, 18:38
Can't say that diving is a facet of their game that I like and they are notorious for it

Number_Eight
16-06-2010, 19:03
Summing this up as briefly as I can ...

Yes.

Jimenez
16-06-2010, 19:13
I agree with that entire post mate.

Their set-up should be the the envy of every supporter in Europe.

halfaperson
16-06-2010, 19:27
its the only way forward

CoeurdeLion
16-06-2010, 20:44
Why not?

What we have is tired and clearly not working.

Dutch_FR1908
16-06-2010, 20:50
Great points made! Just a shame that it can never happen in this country unless there is a total restructure of the SFA

brucie09
16-06-2010, 21:10
The financial model the Germans follow is excellent and it's long term sustainability is sound.

I ready recently that in the Bundesliga the wages to revenue ratio is 51% compared to 67% in the EPL.

Aunty Christ
16-06-2010, 21:26
Sounds good to me but we still have a problem with lack of competition. There is only one way to resolve this but unfortunately there are many on here who won't even consider the radical changes that need to be made. They think the answer lies in bringing in more money when in reality all that happens is the money gets wasted on inflated wages for players, players from the top two teams. This destroys competition, it weakens the smaller teams, makes the SPL a 2 horse race right from the start of every season and drives fans of smaller clubs away. Why can't people see this?

We need to do 2 things.

First we need to introduce a salary scale for ALL players in the SPL. they ALL get paid the same just like nurses, policemen, social workers etc.

Second , and more controversially, we need to share all income evenly to allow the smaller clubs to compete financially. This will enable them to grow, to win trophies, to attract more fans to games. It will creat better atmospheres for them and us. It will bring back excitment and unpredictability.

I've posted this on dozens of occasions before and many posters react with the usual negative comments about not caring if other clubs go bust. Very short sighted and a quite ludicrous position to hold, but there you are.

numberoneallover
16-06-2010, 21:30
I may not like German football unless its Gers releated but in terms of supporters, its fantastic.

rosstheger
16-06-2010, 21:34
Sounds good to me but we still have a problem with lack of competition. There is only one way to resolve this but unfortunately there are many on here who won't even consider the radical changes that need to be made. They think the answer lies in bringing in more money when in reality all that happens is the money gets wasted on inflated wages for players, players from the top two teams. This destroys competition, it weakens the smaller teams, makes the SPL a 2 horse race right from the start of every season and drives fans of smaller clubs away. Why can't people see this?

We need to do 2 things.

First we need to introduce a salary scale for ALL players in the SPL. they ALL get paid the same just like nurses, policemen, social workers etc.

Second , and more controversially, we need to share all income evenly to allow the smaller clubs to compete financially. This will enable them to grow, to win trophies, to attract more fans to games. It will creat better atmospheres for them and us. It will bring back excitment and unpredictability.

I've posted this on dozens of occasions before and many posters react with the usual negative comments about not caring if other clubs go bust. Very short sighted and a quite ludicrous position to hold, but there you are.

Disagree with that one.

Jimenez
16-06-2010, 21:36
Disagree with that one.

Me too, it just needs to be realistic.

Aunty Christ
16-06-2010, 21:42
Disagree with that one.

Can I ask why? My thoughts which seem to be backed up by evidence suggests that it's wages that have put us in debt. A salary scale would create an even playing field and allow the so called "diddy" clubs to keep their best players. How else can we create competition? At the moment we simply buy up the opposition which sounds fine till you realise that the SPL is totally predictable and boring. IMO the ONLY solution is to create more competition.

rosstheger
16-06-2010, 21:43
Can I ask why? My thoughts which seem to be backed up by evidence suggests that it's wages that have put us in debt. A salary scale would create an even playing field and allow the so called "diddy" clubs to keep their best players. How else can we create competition? At the moment we simply buy up the opposition which sounds fine till you realise that the SPL is totally predictable and boring. IMO the ONLY solution is to create more competition.

I agree totally with the second point.

I do think we need to introduce a cap on salaries, but how would you justify Steven Davis and a fringe Inverness player being paid the same?

Aunty Christ
16-06-2010, 21:45
Me too, it just needs to be realistic.

The current situation is a joke. Who wants to watch us beating teams 7-0? Certainly not me.

If you need an example think of Wayne Rooney. A diehard Evertonian until Man U offered him zillions of pounds. Wouldn't the EPL have been better if Rooney had stayed with Everton and perhaps pushed for the title? Instead Man U simply buy the opposition's best players, win everything and destroy the competition.

Abramovich FC are doing the same now.

Earl of Leven
16-06-2010, 21:46
Salary caps should be based on turnover maybe?

And beyond that they should be spread amongst squad....so we'd have 50% of turnover and could use that how we liked...so some stars and some kids, or a decent collection of solid pros.

craig.keating
16-06-2010, 21:46
every english player in the squad plays in england

Aunty Christ
16-06-2010, 21:49
I agree totally with the second point.

I do think we need to introduce a cap on salaries, but how would you justify Steven Davis and a fringe Inverness player being paid the same?

Because it's the only way forward. How do you justify Ronaldo getting £150,000 a week? Football is a sport and sport only works if its exciting. It's just not worth watching otherwise and predictability kills excitment.

eg What's the point in reading a book when you know how it ends? It kind of spoils it.

rosstheger
16-06-2010, 21:51
Because it's the only way forward. How do you justify Ronaldo getting £150,000 a week? Football is a sport and sport only works if its exciting. It's just not worth watching otherwise and predictability kills excitment.

eg What's the point in reading a book when you know how it ends? It kind of spoils it.

I don't think Ronaldo should get that.

A salary cap can work.

But absoluely not having players earning the same wage.

Earl of Leven
16-06-2010, 21:51
every english player in the squad plays in england

We also do need more players to play abroad.....add their experience to the mix. Coaching abroad would also help.

rosstheger
16-06-2010, 21:53
We also do need more players to play abroad.....add their experience to the mix. Coaching abroad would also help.

Definetly,

players at 16,17 years old playing for 6 months or whatever in Holland or somewhere like that would be fantastic experience.

Aunty Christ
16-06-2010, 21:54
Salary caps should be based on turnover maybe?

And beyond that they should be spread amongst squad....so we'd have 50% of turnover and could use that how we liked...so some stars and some kids, or a decent collection of solid pros.

That's perhaps a move in the right direction but it doesn't solve the problem of the financially stronger clubs attracting all the best players. This in turn leads to them winning all the prizes, getting even more fans and more money and killing off the opposition.

If the SPl collected all the cash we could then pay players based on the league's overall turnover. This would take a while to introduce because of contracts and general opposition but the outcome would be a really exciting, unpredictable and interesting league.

For the players who can't survive on a few grand a week then let them join Boydie on the dole.

The-Wall
16-06-2010, 21:55
Great post!

I agree with everything you said but the SPL could only implement that strategy in a much smaller scale. We simply don't have the appeal to attract good sponsors or tv companies that would pay the same as what the Germans get.

We should be able to give better match day experiences than we do, but imo Scottish football has declined that much its going to take a long time to sort out, thats if it can be sorted.

Earl of Leven
16-06-2010, 21:55
Definetly,

players at 16,17 years old playing for 6 months or whatever in Holland or somewhere like that would be fantastic experience.

Maybe, just maybe, completing their 'apprentice years' abroad might help them resist rthe lure of Buckie, slappers and short-cuts; "It'll do...". Professionalism might be increased.

craig.keating
16-06-2010, 21:55
Definetly,

players at 16,17 years old playing for 6 months or whatever in Holland or somewhere like that would be fantastic experience.

but then they get citizenship their and end up playing for the country they have been in.

rosstheger
16-06-2010, 21:57
Maybe, just maybe, completing their 'apprentice years' abroad might help them resist rthe lure of Buckie, slappers and short-cuts; "It'll do...". Professionalism might be increased.

I don't think creating links for the SPL clubs would be a problem.

The SPL clubs players can go over for 6 months, and swap with youngsters from the other club.

Would be excellent experience and they might develop from new coaching methods.

Earl of Leven
16-06-2010, 21:58
but then they get citizenship their and end up playing for the country they have been in.

I assume we'd build that into the deals...they'd be back before that would be triggered.

Take Fleck...talented, but....something missing. He needs a professional environment, no jokes/piss takes etc. He could be great but is drifting...might he be helped by a stint somewhere more professional? In contrast Wilson is by all accounts a more serious lad and more 'boring'....and he has progressed far faster.

GingerFurball
16-06-2010, 22:11
but then they get citizenship their and end up playing for the country they have been in.

No they don't.

No other European Union country offers nationality that easily.

jackm11
16-06-2010, 23:18
Great post superstanko, I agree with everthing you say. The matchday experience in Germany just appears to be a whole lot more fun than in the UK. I would love to see Rangers implement some safe standing areas as I think they would be a great success.

brucie09
16-06-2010, 23:37
I assume we'd build that into the deals...they'd be back before that would be triggered.

Take Fleck...talented, but....something missing. He needs a professional environment, no jokes/piss takes etc. He could be great but is drifting...might he be helped by a stint somewhere more professional? In contrast Wilson is by all accounts a more serious lad and more 'boring'....and he has progressed far faster.

Wilson has only progressed faster than Fleck because he has a natural position and that position was vacant for long periods of last season due to the absence of Bougherra. If Boogie had been an ever present like Weir we wouldn't have seen Wilson. Fleck's best position for me is playing off a centre forward but he'll need to oust Miller to get that role and that is no easy task. A 6 month loan move to another SPL club may be the best option for Fleck.

loyalking
16-06-2010, 23:37
i think it is

vanderhogg
16-06-2010, 23:51
Absolutely.

Agree with every word the OP outlines.

German football is the ideal model for Scotland to follow from top to bottom.

In terms of supporters, I (along with several others) went to a Hamburg game a few years ago and on the Sunday went to see Altona 93 (a local team in Hamburg). Despite playing in the 5th Division (a regional league), their little ground had atmosphere and an "Ultras" area with flags, singing, etc. There may only have been 30 of them, but they were having a ball.

The culture is to get behind the team with everything they've got - versus the culture here of the majority sitting on their hands and expecting to have everything handed to them on a plate.

Calvers72
17-06-2010, 01:13
I agree with most of what Superstanko says but drinking alcohol inside the ground is way down the list of my priorities however bringing back standing areas and making those areas the cheapest for admission would definately get more fans returning to football and vastly improve the atmosphere also imo. I am sure there is much we can learn from the German set up overall.

Dizzel1873
17-06-2010, 01:21
Yea it is since HSV fans done their display agianst ce**ic i took notice and started to watch the bundesliga i was really impressd with the football,i will be certainly watching next season!:D

superstanko
26-08-2011, 10:29
I suggested this a year ago. Has any club actually made an effort to better the league we play in?

since1954
26-08-2011, 11:26
Germany population 70 million Scotland 5.5 million we are the little nation.

sfaulds
26-08-2011, 11:30
Population, weather and being unable to get visa's for good foreign players mean we will always have a diddy league. No TV company is going to offer big money to an audience of 5m. I think for the sake of our game we need to reject TV deals (they are terrible money anyways) and hope to increase gate receipts to cover the tv money shortfall

Blues_and_Twos
26-08-2011, 11:31
Excellent insight.