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MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 02:23
1966 for me, though there could be serious claims for 1962, and 1970

B.Brown (Spurs)
B.Ferguson (Kilmarnock?)

J.Greig (Rangers)
T.Gemmell (Celtic)
R.McKinnon (Rangers)
B.McNeil (Celtic)
R.Yeats (Liverpool)
E. McCreadie (Chelsea)

B. Bremner (Leeds Utd)
P.Crerand (Man Utd)
B. Murdoch (Celtic)
D.McKay (Spurs)
P.Stanton (Hibs)
D.Smith (Rangers)
J.Baxter (Sunderland)
C.Cooke (Chelsea)

W.Henderson (Rangers)
J.Johnstone (Celtic)
I.St John (Liverpool)
J.Forrest (Rangers)
A.Gilzean (Spurs)
D.Law (Man Utd)
W.Johnston (Rangers)

Standby
A.Blacklaw (Burnley)
D.Provan (Rangers)
F. McLintock (Arsenal)
B.Collins (Leeds Utd)
A.Penman (Dundee)
J.McBride (Celtic)
B.Lennox (Celtic)

Tough to see players of the calibre of Willie Morgan, Willie Wallace, Peter Cormack, John Hughes, George Mclean (39 goals in 34 games that season)
don't even make it into the 30

My XI
Ferguson
Greig
Gemmell
Murdoch
McKinnon
Baxter
Henderson
Bremner
Forrest
Law
Johnstone

Dippy55
12-05-2010, 02:28
Its obviously hypothetical but the home nations never went to the Pre War World Cups because they thought they were too good for them, I'm guessing they also didn't realise the significance of the trophy in future generations. By all accounts Scotland really had one of the best teams in the world in the 30's, it would have been very interesting to see how they would have got on at the time.

williamstown
12-05-2010, 02:36
Unbelievable with the talent we've had we could never quite produce it
as a team throughout the years,thats just Scotland though lose to Poland and beat Italy.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 02:37
Its obviously hypothetical but the home nations never went to the Pre War World Cups because they thought they were too good for them, I'm guessing they also didn't realise the significance of the trophy in future generations. By all accounts Scotland really had one of the best teams in the world in the 30's, it would have been very interesting to see how they would have got on at the time.


Good point, but there was only three prior to the war, and England were embarassed heavily by the USA in 1950, and Scotland too in 54'.
It would certainly have been interesting to see how Scotland would have fared in the first one, with arguably the World's greatest player in their ranks, in Alan Morton.
I also think we had some great players in both 62 and 70, in years that we failed to make it.
I still think had we made it to England in 66', we would have had a serious chance.

williamstown
12-05-2010, 02:44
Good point, but there was only three prior to the war, and England were embarassed heavily by the USA in 1950, and Scotland too in 54'.
It would certainly have been interesting to see how Scotland would have fared in the first one, with arguably the World's greatest player in their ranks, in Alan Morton.
I also think we had some great players in both 62 and 70, in years that we failed to make it.
I still think had we made it to England in 66', we would have had a serious chance.

I remember hearing Docherty talking about 54 and blaming the heavy jerseys
the Scotland team were wearing,also there were no Rangers players there
wonder if that was a club decision not to send anybody such was the apathy
towards it at the time.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 02:52
Unbelievable with the talent we've had we could never quite produce it
as a team throughout the years,thats just Scotland though lose to Poland and beat Italy.

I was at the Poland Game, it was one of my first internationals, and I think we led 1-0, and gave up 2 goals in the last 5 mins.
The only good thing to come out of it was that Stein dropped both full backs, Alex Hamilton and Eddie McCreadie, and the centre half, Billy McNeil, and replaced them with John Greig, Davy Provan, and Ronnie McKinnon (all of Rangers) for the next game, which we won, defeating Italy 1-0 at Hampden.
We were back in with a chance, but horrendous injuries cost us the return game in Italy, and a great Scotland squad never made it to England.

williamstown
12-05-2010, 03:01
I was at the Poland Game, it was one of my first internationals, and I think we led 1-0, and gave up 2 goals in the last 5 mins.
The only good thing to come out of it was that Stein dropped both full backs, Alex Hamilton and Eddie McCreadie, and the centre half, Billy McNeil, and replaced them with John Greig, Davy Provan, and Ronnie McKinnon (all of Rangers) for the next game, which we won, defeating Italy 1-0 at Hampden.
We were back in with a chance, but horrendous injuries cost us the return game in Italy, and a great Scotland squad never made it to England.

Imagine what Mourinho could have done with that squad mate,we never had the greatest management at International level.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 03:03
I remember hearing Docherty talking about 54 and blaming the heavy jerseys
the Scotland team were wearing,also there were no Rangers players there
wonder if that was a club decision not to send anybody such was the apathy
towards it at the time.

George Young, who was Scotland's most capped player by a distance, and would remain so for at least another decade, was sensationally dropped, when the pool was named.
No other Rangers players were in the squad.
Unbeliveable as it seems, I think Scotland only took 12 players, and two of them were goalkeepers!!!!!!!!!
I remember Docherty talking about the Uruguay game, saying we were already beaten in the tunnel, as these well tanned foreigners, in short shorts, lined up against Scotland in heavy shirts that were all made to fit George Young. As the game progressed, torrential rain, made these oversized shirts, so heavy, the players were knackered, and Uruguay ran out comfortable 7-0 winners.:D

williamstown
12-05-2010, 03:12
George Young, who was Scotland's most capped player by a distance, and would remain so for at least another decade, was sensationally dropped, when the pool was named.
No other Rangers players were in the squad.
Unbeliveable as it seems, I think Scotland only took 12 players, and two of them were goalkeepers!!!!!!!!!
I remember Docherty talking about the Uruguay game, saying we were already beaten in the tunnel, as these well tanned foreigners, in short shorts, lined up against Scotland in heavy shirts that were all made to fit George Young. As the game progressed, torrential rain, made these oversized shirts, so heavy, the players were knackered, and Uruguay ran out comfortable 7-0 winners.:D

Just reading about it there and they took 13 players when they were allowed 22,the SFA mob all went though taking it as a jolly with their wifes on tow,nothing changes in Scottish football.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 03:12
Imagine what Mourinho could have done with that squad mate,we never had the greatest management at International level.

All hypothetical of course, but had we have qualified for England 66', then Stein would probably have been in charge, and as a manager at that time, he was pretty successful. Had he have done a good job, chances are he would have been lured abroad directly afterwards, and Sean Fallon would have been in charge of Celtic for the start of the 66-67 campaign.
Oh how history could have have been different.:roll:

basiltherat
12-05-2010, 05:57
Just reading about it there and they took 13 players when they were allowed 22,the SFA mob all went though taking it as a jolly with their wifes on tow,nothing changes in Scottish football.

It's sickening how the national team is used as a source of jollies for the boys in blazers. They really are taking the fans for mugs on a regular basis.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 13:29
1962

B.Brown (Spurs)
B.Ritchie (Rangers)

A.Hamilton (Dundee)
B.Shearer (Rangers)
B.McNeil (Celtic)
I. Ure (Dundee)
D.McKay (Spurs)
E.Caldow (Rangers)

P.Crerand (Celtic )
H.Davis (Rangers)
A.Penman (Dundee)
F.McLintock (Leicester)
I.McMillan (Rangers)
J.White (Spurs)
J.Baxter (Rangers)

W.Henderson (Rangers)
A.Scott (Rangers)
I.St John (Liverpool)
J.Millar (Rangers)
A.Gilzean (Dundee)
D.Law (Torino)
R.Brand (Rangers)
D.Wilson (Rangers)

Standby
E.Connachan (Dunfermline)
D.Holt (Hearts)
D.Smith (Dundee Utd)
G.McLean (St Mirren)
C.Cooke (Aberdeen)
A.Young (Everton)
J.Hughes (Celtic)

Asiablue
12-05-2010, 14:13
1966 agreed, however replace Ferguson and Forrest with Brown & St. John.

deedle
12-05-2010, 14:19
I was at the Poland Game, it was one of my first internationals, and I think we led 1-0, and gave up 2 goals in the last 5 mins.
The only good thing to come out of it was that Stein dropped both full backs, Alex Hamilton and Eddie McCreadie, and the centre half, Billy McNeil, and replaced them with John Greig, Davy Provan, and Ronnie McKinnon (all of Rangers) for the next game, which we won, defeating Italy 1-0 at Hampden.
We were back in with a chance, but horrendous injuries cost us the return game in Italy, and a great Scotland squad never made it to England.

I read the Evening Times report of the Poland game when I was up in the Mitchell Library a few months back.

The writer was absolutely scathing about Denis Law and Alex Hamilton - really vitriolic stuff. Willie Johnston came in for much praise, though.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 14:49
1966 agreed, however replace Ferguson and Forrest with Brown & St. John.

Fair argument, but Brown, and St John were past their best, and both never played for Scotland again, after 1965.
Bobby Ferguson was definitely the form keeper at the time in 1966.
The young Jim Forrest, had scored an incredible 132 goals in 131 games, in the previous three season's, and was surely worthy of a place alongside Denis Law.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 17:45
I read the Evening Times report of the Poland game when I was up in the Mitchell Library a few months back.

The writer was absolutely scathing about Denis Law and Alex Hamilton - really vitriolic stuff. Willie Johnston came in for much praise, though.

Strangely enough, I think jock stein had handed Johnston his Scotland debut in that game, and in spite of his excellent performance, opted to bring in John Hughes for the next game v Italy.
Law was dropped, and replaced by Neil Martin (Hibs).
Alex Hamilton, and Paddy Crerand never played for Scotland again.

Red_White_and_Ajax
12-05-2010, 17:48
just looked at that squad for 1966 and thought of what we have available to us right now.

Dear Jesus , Scottish football has fallen on severe hard times .

deedle
12-05-2010, 18:09
The squad we could have called upon in 1986 was still very strong.

In my view, stronger than squads in the 70s.

However, we started going steadily downhill after that.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 18:22
The squad we could have called upon in 1986 was still very strong.

In my view, stronger than squads in the 70s.

However, we started going steadily downhill after that.

Yes, and i think we went to that World Cup in 86' leaving Alan Hansen, and Kenny Dalglish behind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 18:38
just looked at that squad for 1966 and thought of what we have available to us right now.

Dear Jesus , Scottish football has fallen on severe hard times .


Yes, and as good as that squad was back then, we played a friendly a month or so before the World Cup 66', against the 'minnows' that was Holland, and were severely trounced 0-3 at Hampden in front of only 16,513. probably our lowest attendance ever for an International at Hampden, at that time.

The game prior to that, had seen 123,052 at Hampden for the 3-4 defeat to England.
A month later we had 73,933, for the 1-1 friendly v Brazil.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 20:51
1970

B.Clark (Aberdeen)
J.Cruickshank (Hearts)

D.Hay (Celtic)
S.Jardine (Rangers)
R.McKinnon (Rangers)
B. Moncur (Newcastle)
F.McLintock (Arsenal)
T.Gemmell (Celtic)

B.Bremner (Leeds Utd)
B.Murdoch (Celtic)
J.Greig (Rangers)
P.Stanton (Hibs)
P.Cormack (Hibs)
C.Cooke (Chelsea)
E.Gray (Leeds Utd)

W.Henderson (Rangers)
J.Johnstone (Celtic)
C.Stein (Rangers)
A.Gilzean (Spurs)
J.O'Hare (Derby)
D.Law (Man Utd)
B.Lennox (Celtic)
W.Johnston (Rangers)

Standby
J.Herriot (Birmingham)
B.McNeil (Celtic)
W.Carr (Coventry)
P.Lorimer (Leeds Utd)
H.Hood (Celtic)
W.Wallace (Celtic)
P.Marinello (Hibs)

Sir Duncan Ferguson
12-05-2010, 20:53
Yes, and i think we went to that World Cup in 86' leaving Alan Hansen, and Kenny Dalglish behind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And four goal scorers in McCoist, Robertson, Johnston and McClair who scored 81 goals that season between them and never got a sniff.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-05-2010, 21:40
And four goal scorers in McCoist, Robertson, Johnston and McClair who scored 81 goals that season between them and never got a sniff.

I had forgot about that, and the five strikers we took (McAvennie, Sturrock, Nicholas, Sharp, and Archibald) failed to score a goal between them.

I also remember David Speedie being one of the best forwards in England that season, but was inexplicably overlooked.

Reg_Shoe
12-05-2010, 22:40
I had forgot about that, and the five strikers we took (McAvennie, Sturrock, Nicholas, Sharp, and Archibald) failed to score a goal between them.

I also remember David Speedie being one of the best forwards in England that season, but was inexplicably overlooked.

Dropping Souness for the game against Uruguay (when we needed a hardman in the middle of the park) IMO was a crazy decision.

Also keeping Cooper on the bench when we needed a creative spark.

IIRC Nicol missed an absolute sitter which would have put us through.

struthpark
12-05-2010, 23:01
I remember hearing Docherty talking about 54 and blaming the heavy jerseys
the Scotland team were wearing,also there were no Rangers players there
wonder if that was a club decision not to send anybody such was the apathy
towards it at the time.

might be wrong but I seem to remember that the absence of Rngers players was to do with a tour in Canada

RangersRus
13-05-2010, 00:20
1962 squad were unlucky as they were beaten in qualifying decider (in Brussels I think) by the Czechs, who went all the way to the final only to lose to Brazil 0-3.

MO_TxTruBlu
07-06-2010, 14:32
1962 squad were unlucky as they were beaten in qualifying decider (in Brussels I think) by the Czechs, who went all the way to the final only to lose to Brazil 0-3.


Yes, we were beaten in a play off v Czechoslovakia (2-4), after extra time, having led twice in regular time.
The Scotland manager inexplicably gave debuts to the Dundee goalkeeper, and left winger, in such a vital game.
We played this match without our regular wingers Alex Scott ,and Davy Wilson.
The Czechs would go all the way to the Final, where they lost 1-3 to Brazil.

In 66' Qualification, the two goals conceded at Hampden in the last 5 mins v Poland, ultimately cost us, as despite beating Italy at Hampden, the Italians went through, defeating us on home soil, and I think they might well have been tournament favourites in 66'.

In 70' we were somewhat unlucky in both games v W.Germany, particularly over there where we outplayed them, but lost 2-3.
Our goalkeeper Jim Herriot, never played for Scotland again.

sydneyger65
17-07-2012, 13:04
Sorry guys but this is probably the wrong thread, but does anyone have the link or the information the says Rangers fans make up the majority of Scotlands support. Having an arguement with an Aussie taig who thinks we hate Scotland that much that we don't support the national team.

Worthy_Candidate
17-07-2012, 13:10
Yes, we were beaten in a play off v Czechoslovakia (2-4), after extra time, having led twice in regular time.
The Scotland manager inexplicably gave debuts to the Dundee goalkeeper, and left winger, in such a vital game.
We played this match without our regular wingers Alex Scott ,and Davy Wilson.
The Czechs would go all the way to the Final, where they lost 1-3 to Brazil.

In 66' Qualification, the two goals conceded at Hampden in the last 5 mins v Poland, ultimately cost us, as despite beating Italy at Hampden, the Italians went through, defeating us on home soil, and I think they might well have been tournament favourites in 66'.

In 70' we were somewhat unlucky in both games v W.Germany, particularly over there where we outplayed them, but lost 2-3.Our goalkeeper Jim Herriot, never played for Scotland again.

Is that the game that Tommy Gemmell chased the German player who tripped him and booted him up the arse when the game was stopped right in front of the referee?

One of the funniest things I've seen in football.

Here it is but you'll need to ignore the first part of the interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6H3kleEmi8

Sir Duncan Ferguson
17-07-2012, 13:14
I had forgot about that, and the five strikers we took (McAvennie, Sturrock, Nicholas, Sharp, and Archibald) failed to score a goal between them.

I also remember David Speedie being one of the best forwards in England that season, but was inexplicably overlooked.

Was Nicholas not kicked off the park in the first match against the Danes ?

Worthy_Candidate
17-07-2012, 13:19
Was Nicholas not kicked off the park in the first match against the Danes ?

Was playing well and was a real threat but got injured I recall.

Dunno if he was kicked off the park though. The Danes could no doubt mix it but they never struck me a a dirty side.

deedle
17-07-2012, 13:19
Sorry guys but this is probably the wrong thread, but does anyone have the link or the information the says Rangers fans make up the majority of Scotlands support. Having an arguement with an Aussie taig who thinks we hate Scotland that much that we don't support the national team.

Rangers fans certainly used to make up at least half of the national team's support.

But this was prior to the late 80s, when everything seemed to change.

Allegedly, Rangers fans are still represented in the Scotland support to a higher degree than other clubs, but only by a small margin. I think the figure a few years ago was 16% of the relevant travel club. But this is only 1 in 6 of the support and even this figure must be open to question now.

Any analysis of what happened in the past must rely on anecdotal evidence. I am old enough to remember that while the SFA were looked upon as a bit of a joke, there was no schism whatsover between Rangers fans and the national team. Quite the reverse - there used to be a battle for tickets for the game against England at Wembley which were strictly rationed. Rangers players travelled down to Wembley on supporters buses to support the team.

Changed days!

By and large, Celtic fans did not support Scotland actively.

I think it has to be remembered that there is a political dimension to the Scotland support nowadays, which did not exist before. Moreover, the support hails largely from outside the WoS, with many fans from the 'diddy clubs'.

Sir Duncan Ferguson
17-07-2012, 13:24
Was playing well and was a real threat but got injured I recall.

Dunno if he was kicked off the park though. The Danes could no doubt mix it but they never struck me a a dirty side.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19860606&id=s7ZAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uKUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3862,1556908

Found this

omegaman
17-07-2012, 13:29
The squad we could have called upon in 1986 was still very strong.

In my view, stronger than squads in the 70s.

However, we started going steadily downhill after that.

Personally I thought the squad we had in '82 was possibly our best and we started going downhill from that point.

By '86 Dalglish and Souness, arguably our only two genuinely world class players, were in their mid '30s and never replaced in terms of quality.

A combination of the heat and the proverbial Group of Death put pay to us in '86, although we will probably never have a better chance of reaching the knockout stages when due to the structure at the time, more teams qualified for the next stage than were put out.

Worthy_Candidate
17-07-2012, 13:38
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19860606&id=s7ZAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uKUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3862,1556908

Found this

Cheers.

Interesting read from a long gone era.

Phalcon
17-07-2012, 14:04
wrong time to be having a Scotland talk on here given the beasting we have taken from the SFA . All ex Rangers players in the hall of fame should ask for their names to be removed in protest !

MO_TxTruBlu
14-05-2014, 12:25
I can't think what a Scotland squad of 23 would look like in 2014!

Bill the Butcher
14-05-2014, 12:30
I had forgot about that, and the five strikers we took (McAvennie, Sturrock, Nicholas, Sharp, and Archibald) failed to score a goal between them.

I also remember David Speedie being one of the best forwards in England that season, but was inexplicably overlooked.

Did Speedie not play in the play off v Australia?

The_Gub
14-05-2014, 12:30
Lawrie Reilly said back in the day that the Hibs Famous Five forward line and Rangers Iron Curtain defence could have beaten the world.

Andy Weir
14-05-2014, 12:35
I can't think what a Scotland squad of 23 would look like in 2014!

Without looking I can name the following but no idea if they've featured recently or not:

McGregor
Marshall
Bell(?)

Wallace
Whittaker
Bardsley
Berra
Caldwell
Hutton
Martin

Boyd
Brown
Burke
Darren Fletcher
Charlie Adam(s)
Snodgrass
Bannan
Dorrans
Morrisson

Judas Naismith
Steven Fletcher
Kris Boyd
Maloney

Not that they'd qualify out of any group we were put in, I think that's a reasonable squad. Defence was a difficult one though.

bilkobear
14-05-2014, 12:50
might be wrong but I seem to remember that the absence of Rngers players was to do with a tour in Canada

It was.
Crazy really, but the tour of Canada had been arranged a long time in advance at some expense, and was seen as a trip of a lifetime.
The World Cup wasn't yet rated as such a huge tournament.
However, the SFA treated the trip to Switzerland as a junket anyway, I think there was more officials and wives of officials in the party than there were players..

numberoneallover
14-05-2014, 14:24
only ever heard story's of Scotland setting off to win the world cup

but then failing

Mulguy1953
14-05-2014, 15:30
I was at the Poland Game, it was one of my first internationals, and I think we led 1-0, and gave up 2 goals in the last 5 mins.
The only good thing to come out of it was that Stein dropped both full backs, Alex Hamilton and Eddie McCreadie, and the centre half, Billy McNeil, and replaced them with John Greig, Davy Provan, and Ronnie McKinnon (all of Rangers) for the next game, which we won, defeating Italy 1-0 at Hampden.
We were back in with a chance, but horrendous injuries cost us the return game in Italy, and a great Scotland squad never made it to England.

I was at that game as well and i,m sure it was Billy Mcneil that scored Scotlands goal that night , it was also Willie Johnston,s first game for Scotland and was best player on the park

omegaman
14-05-2014, 15:34
Good point, but there was only three prior to the war, and England were embarassed heavily by the USA in 1950, and Scotland too in 54'.
It would certainly have been interesting to see how Scotland would have fared in the first one, with arguably the World's greatest player in their ranks, in Alan Morton.
I also think we had some great players in both 62 and 70, in years that we failed to make it.
I still think had we made it to England in 66', we would have had a serious chance.

Possibly, but there's also a very good chance that in keeping with our history of being roundly shite at World Cups, we would have spectacularly flopped yet again.

Remember that the mighty Brazil, the reigning champs that year with Pele et al in their ranks, failed to get past the first round.

Oleg_Mcnoleg
14-05-2014, 15:59
The '66 squad is ridiculous. Player for player it should have been at least as strong as England's.

Hootsmon
14-05-2014, 16:58
Yes, and i think we went to that World Cup in 86' leaving Alan Hansen, and Kenny Dalglish behind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The story at the time was Ferguson, who was Stein's assistant, asked Hansen and Dalglish to fill him on Ian Rush before the final match. They both refused and Ferguson took the huff.

MO_TxTruBlu
14-05-2014, 18:07
Did Speedie not play in the play off v Australia?

Yes, he did start in the secong leg, and he also started in the game v England just six weeks before the world cup, but did not make Ferguson's final cut!

JammiesBear
14-05-2014, 18:10
They forwards :eek:

W.Henderson (Rangers)
J.Johnstone (Celtic)
I.St John (Liverpool)
J.Forrest (Rangers)
A.Gilzean (Spurs)
D.Law (Man Utd)
W.Johnston (Rangers)

MO_TxTruBlu
15-05-2014, 13:32
Lawrie Reilly said back in the day that the Hibs Famous Five forward line and Rangers Iron Curtain defence could have beaten the world.

That would be interesting to see whart sort of squad we would have had in 1950.
Looking at some of the teams Scotland put out in the few Internationals back then, most of the Iron Curtain defence played, but only Lawrie Reilly from the Hibs Famous Five featured regularly, gaining 7 of his 38 caps prior to the 1950 World Cup.
They were competing against the Famous Five William's...Waddell, Bauld, Thornton, Steel, and Liddell!

The_Gub
15-05-2014, 15:06
I liked the one also attributed to Reilly. Hibs had lost a goal and Reilly is supposed to have rebuked his defenders by saying; 'This means we'll need to score another four or five goals today, to make up for you lot.

Not verbatim, but it paints the picture.

MO_TxTruBlu
15-05-2014, 15:52
They forwards :eek:

W.Henderson (Rangers)
J.Johnstone (Celtic)
I.St John (Liverpool)
J.Forrest (Rangers)
A.Gilzean (Spurs)
D.Law (Man Utd)
W.Johnston (Rangers)

Yes, and I could offer another 10 from that period, that were considerably better than anything we have at our disposal today!
T.McLean
W.Morgan
J. McBride
S. Chalmers
A.Young
W.Wallace
G.McLean
J.Hughes
B.Lennox
D.Wilson

alwaysfirst
15-05-2014, 16:37
Up till about 1990, we had players playing for very good Scottish teams, and players playing at the top level in England. Scotland's 4th or 5th team in 1966 would be too strong for our best current team.
In 1967, everybody remembers us and the scum getting to European finals: Killie got to the semi of Fairs cup that season. Dunfermilne put Everton out of the CWC about then as well.

MO_TxTruBlu
15-05-2014, 17:37
Without looking I can name the following but no idea if they've featured recently or not:

McGregor
Marshall
Bell(?)

Wallace
Whittaker
Bardsley
Berra
Caldwell
Hutton
Martin

Boyd
Brown
Burke
Darren Fletcher
Charlie Adam(s)
Snodgrass
Bannan
Dorrans
Morrisson

Judas Naismith
Steven Fletcher
Kris Boyd
Maloney

Not that they'd qualify out of any group we were put in, I think that's a reasonable squad. Defence was a difficult one though.

That is probably as good a squad as we could get currently.
Sadly, I can only think of McGregor who would have made it into any of the Squads in 62' 66' or 70'.

TexasBear
15-05-2014, 17:56
I was at the Poland Game, it was one of my first internationals, and I think we led 1-0, and gave up 2 goals in the last 5 mins.
The only good thing to come out of it was that Stein dropped both full backs, Alex Hamilton and Eddie McCreadie, and the centre half, Billy McNeil, and replaced them with John Greig, Davy Provan, and Ronnie McKinnon (all of Rangers) for the next game, which we won, defeating Italy 1-0 at Hampden.
We were back in with a chance, but horrendous injuries cost us the return game in Italy, and a great Scotland squad never made it to England.

Did not realize that you are that old MO :roll:

ronnietheranger
15-05-2014, 18:01
Did not realize that you are that old MO :roll:

He's a lot older than y'all think.........he was Alan Morton's jannie at school.

brotybear
15-05-2014, 18:01
1966 for me, though there could be serious claims for 1962, and 1970

B.Brown (Spurs)
B.Ferguson (Kilmarnock?)

J.Greig (Rangers)
T.Gemmell (Celtic)
R.McKinnon (Rangers)
B.McNeil (Celtic)
R.Yeats (Liverpool)
E. McCreadie (Chelsea)

B. Bremner (Leeds Utd)
P.Crerand (Man Utd)
B. Murdoch (Celtic)
D.McKay (Spurs)
P.Stanton (Hibs)
D.Smith (Rangers)
J.Baxter (Sunderland)
C.Cooke (Chelsea)

W.Henderson (Rangers)
J.Johnstone (Celtic)
I.St John (Liverpool)
J.Forrest (Rangers)
A.Gilzean (Spurs)
D.Law (Man Utd)
W.Johnston (Rangers)

Standby
A.Blacklaw (Burnley)
D.Provan (Rangers)
F. McLintock (Arsenal)
B.Collins (Leeds Utd)
A.Penman (Dundee)
J.McBride (Celtic)
B.Lennox (Celtic)

Tough to see players of the calibre of Willie Morgan, Willie Wallace, Peter Cormack, John Hughes, George Mclean (39 goals in 34 games that season)
don't even make it into the 30

My XI
Ferguson
Greig
Gemmell
Murdoch
McKinnon
Baxter
Henderson
Bremner
Forrest
Law
Johnstone

Imagine if Strachan could call on a pool of players like that. The media's overdrive would exceed even that of the support for Ally's Army in 1978!

britain
15-05-2014, 18:34
1962

B.Brown (Spurs)
B.Ritchie (Rangers)

A.Hamilton (Dundee)
B.Shearer (Rangers)
B.McNeil (Celtic)
I. Ure (Dundee)
D.McKay (Spurs)
E.Caldow (Rangers)

P.Crerand (Celtic )
H.Davis (Rangers)
A.Penman (Dundee)
F.McLintock (Leicester)
I.McMillan (Rangers)
J.White (Spurs)
J.Baxter (Rangers)

W.Henderson (Rangers)
A.Scott (Rangers)
I.St John (Liverpool)
J.Millar (Rangers)
A.Gilzean (Dundee)
D.Law (Torino)
R.Brand (Rangers)
D.Wilson (Rangers)

Standby
E.Connachan (Dunfermline)
D.Holt (Hearts)
D.Smith (Dundee Utd)
G.McLean (St Mirren)
C.Cooke (Aberdeen)
A.Young (Everton)
J.Hughes (Celtic)

Some squad of players that !

MO_TxTruBlu
15-05-2014, 18:44
Did not realize that you are that old MO :roll:

There is a lot you don't realize Son! :p

Only1WullieJohnston
15-05-2014, 19:30
I was at the Poland Game, it was one of my first internationals, and I think we led 1-0, and gave up 2 goals in the last 5 mins.
The only good thing to come out of it was that Stein dropped both full backs, Alex Hamilton and Eddie McCreadie, and the centre half, Billy McNeil, and replaced them with John Greig, Davy Provan, and Ronnie McKinnon (all of Rangers) for the next game, which we won, defeating Italy 1-0 at Hampden.
We were back in with a chance, but horrendous injuries cost us the return game in Italy, and a great Scotland squad never made it to England.

Not forgetting that it was John Greig who scored in the 1-0 win against Italy.

11albertz
15-05-2014, 20:08
Cracking thread Mo,i seen most of the 66 squad,all of the 70 squad,can you post the 74 WC squad please.

I know they qualified,but,it would be interesting to see the changes from 1970,Denis at the end of his International career.

hihibear
15-05-2014, 20:14
Not forgetting that it was John Greig who scored in the 1-0 win against Italy.

That goal made JG a legend and kick-started his career!

MO_TxTruBlu
15-05-2014, 23:32
That goal made JG a legend and kick-started his career!

I think you must have been too busy watching Third Lanark back then.

John Greig had already made close to 200 appearances, being an everpresent in the most successful Rangers side ever, having already collected SIX consecutive Domestic winners medals (2 League Championships, 2 Scottish Cups, 2 League Cups), prior to earning his 12th cap against Italy!

jaws
16-05-2014, 08:29
The ultimate missed opportunity. A year before Glasgow having finalists in both major European Club competition and all the best teams south of the border boasting Scottish talent. We shouldn't just have qualified, we should have won it!

MO_TxTruBlu
16-05-2014, 12:26
Possibly, but there's also a very good chance that in keeping with our history of being roundly shite at World Cups, we would have spectacularly flopped yet again.

Remember that the mighty Brazil, the reigning champs that year with Pele et al in their ranks, failed to get past the first round.


With Stein at the helm, we might have done well, and History (for both Scotland and Rangers) might well have been different, as I indicated above

I remember the great Pele being brutally kicked off the park in the first game v Bulgaria.
He missed the second game v Hungary from the injuries sustained in the first match.
He returned to play against Portugal, and was subsequently kicked at every opportunity, and limped off.
So bad was the brutality, He considered quitting the game at 25 years old

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2t0q_how-did-they-stop-pele-in-the-1966_sport (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2t0q_how-did-they-stop-pele-in-the-1966_sport)

britain
16-05-2014, 13:25
1966 for me, though there could be serious claims for 1962, and 1970

B.Brown (Spurs)
B.Ferguson (Kilmarnock?)

J.Greig (Rangers)
T.Gemmell (Celtic)
R.McKinnon (Rangers)
B.McNeil (Celtic)
R.Yeats (Liverpool)
E. McCreadie (Chelsea)

B. Bremner (Leeds Utd)
P.Crerand (Man Utd)
B. Murdoch (Celtic)
D.McKay (Spurs)
P.Stanton (Hibs)
D.Smith (Rangers)
J.Baxter (Sunderland)
C.Cooke (Chelsea)

W.Henderson (Rangers)
J.Johnstone (Celtic)
I.St John (Liverpool)
J.Forrest (Rangers)
A.Gilzean (Spurs)
D.Law (Man Utd)
W.Johnston (Rangers)

Standby
A.Blacklaw (Burnley)
D.Provan (Rangers)
F. McLintock (Arsenal)
B.Collins (Leeds Utd)
A.Penman (Dundee)
J.McBride (Celtic)
B.Lennox (Celtic)

Tough to see players of the calibre of Willie Morgan, Willie Wallace, Peter Cormack, John Hughes, George Mclean (39 goals in 34 games that season)
don't even make it into the 30

My XI
Ferguson
Greig
Gemmell
Murdoch
McKinnon
Baxter
Henderson
Bremner
Forrest
Law
Johnstone

Looking back, the quality in that squad is frightening.

Pichichi
16-05-2014, 15:37
Its obviously hypothetical but the home nations never went to the Pre War World Cups because they thought they were too good for them, I'm guessing they also didn't realise the significance of the trophy in future generations. By all accounts Scotland really had one of the best teams in the world in the 30's, it would have been very interesting to see how they would have got on at the time.

Aye, our record in the mid-to-late 1930s was really impressive, beating some of the best teams in Europe at the time. Around about the time of the 1938 World Cup, we beat Hungary ('38 runners-up), pumped Czechoslavia ('38 quarters) home and away (3-1 and 5-0), drew away to Austria ('34 semis) and beat Germany ('34 semis) 2-0. That's the way that got away IMO.

marstonbear
16-05-2014, 15:48
Cracking thread Mo,i seen most of the 66 squad,all of the 70 squad,can you post the 74 WC squad please.

I know they qualified,but,it would be interesting to see the changes from 1970,Denis at the end of his International career.

1 GK David Harvey 07 Feb 1948 Leeds United (ENG)
2 DF Sandy Jardine 31 Dec 1948 Glasgow Rangers
3 DF Danny McGrain 01 May 1950 Glasgow Celtic
4 MD Billy Bremner 09 Dec 1942 Leeds United (ENG)
5 DF James Holton 11 Apr 1951 Manchester United (ENG)
6 DF John Blackley 12 May 1948 Hibernian
7 MD Jimmy Johnstone 30 Sep 1944 Glasgow Celtic
8 FW Kenny Dalglish 04 Mar 1951 Glasgow Celtic
9 FW Joe Jordan 15 Dec 1951 Leeds United (ENG)
10 MD David Hay 29 Jan 1948 Glasgow Celtic
11 FW Peter Lorimer 14 Dec 1946 Leeds United (ENG)
12 GK Thompson Allan 05 Oct 1946 Dundee FC
13 GK Jim Stewart 09 Mar 1954 Kilmarnock
14 DF Martin Buchan 06 Mar 1949 Manchester United (ENG)
15 MD Peter Cormack 17 Jul 1946 Liverpool (ENG)
16 DF William Donachie 05 Oct 1951 Manchester City (ENG)
17 MD Don Fort 25 Oct 1944 Heart of Midlothian
18 MD Thomas Hutchinson 22 Sep 1947 Coventry City (ENG)
19 FW Denis Law 24 Feb 1940 Manchester City (ENG)
20 FW William Morgan 02 Oct 1944 Manchester United (ENG)
21 DF Gordon McQueen 26 Jun 1952 Leeds United (ENG)
22 DF Eric Schaedler 06 Aug 1949 Hibernian

bearmind
17-05-2014, 12:02
The 1978 squad was actually a very good one and should have made the latter stages of that World Cup Finals. I think that Ally McLeod apart from being guilty of poor management was also biased in favour of some of his old Aberdeen players in choosing the squad. Note too that there were no 'current’ Celtic players in that squad with Dalglish & Macari having left. Rangers, Man Utd, Liverpool, Derby and Forest, the big teams in the UK back then were well represented.


1, GK, Alan Rough, 25 November 1951 (aged 26), , Partick Thistle.
2, DF, Sandy Jardine, 31 December 1948 (aged 29), , Rangers
3, DF, Willie Donachie, 5 October 1951 (aged 26), , Manchester City
4, DF, Martin Buchan, 6 March 1949 (aged 29), , Manchester United
5, DF, Gordon McQueen, 26 June 1952 (aged 25), , Manchester United
6, MF, Bruce Rioch, 6 September 1947 (aged 30), , Derby County
7, MF, Don Masson, 26 August 1949 (aged 28), , Derby County
8, FW, Kenny Dalglish, 4 March 1951 (aged 27), , Liverpool
9, FW, Joe Jordan, 15 December 1951 (aged 26), , Manchester United
10, MF, Asa Hartford, 24 October 1950 (aged 27), , Manchester City
11, MF, Willie Johnston, 19 December 1946 (aged 31), , West Bromwich
12, GK, Jim Blyth, 2 February 1955 (aged 23), , Coventry City
13, DF, Stuart Kennedy, 31 May 1953 (aged 25), , Aberdeen
14, DF, Tom Forsyth, 23 January 1949 (aged 29), , Rangers
15, MF, Archie Gemmill, 24 March 1947 (aged 31), , Nottingham Forest
16, FW, Lou Macari, 7 June 1949 (aged 28), , Manchester United
17, FW, Derek Johnstone, 4 November 1953 (aged 24), , Rangers
18, MF, Graeme Souness, 6 May 1953 (aged 25), , Liverpool
19, FW, John Robertson, 20 January 1953 (aged 25), , Nottingham Forest
20, GK, Bobby Clark, 26 September 1945 (aged 32), , Aberdeen
21, FW, Joe Harper, 11 January 1948 (aged 30), , Aberdeen
22, DF, Kenny Burns, 23 September 1953 (aged 24), , Nottingham Forest

Just on a side note the other home nations were unlucky not to make the 1966 World Cup finals as well as Scotland. Wales finished 2nd in their qualifying group. Northern Ireland only had to beat Albania away (very poor team back then) in their last game to qualify. They drew 1-1 and Switzerland won their game to take first spot.

MO_TxTruBlu
10-11-2016, 17:59
Scotland squad to face England.....

I cannot think of ONE player who would have even made it into the squads that failed to reach the World Cup Finals in 1962, 66' or 70'!


Goalkeepers: Craig Gordon (Celtic), Jack Hamilton (Heart of Midlothian), David Marshall (Hull City).

Defenders: Christophe Berra (Ipswich Town), Gordon Greer (Blackburn Rovers), Grant Hanley (Newcastle United), Stephen Kingsley (Swansea City), Russell Martin (Norwich City), Charlie Mulgrew (Blackburn Rovers), Callum Paterson (Heart of Midlothian), Lee Wallace (Rangers).

Midfielders: Ikechi Anya (Derby County), Barry Bannan (Sheffield Wednesday), Scott Brown (Celtic), Oliver Burke (RB Leipzig), Darren Fletcher (West Bromwich Albion), James Forrest (Celtic), James McArthur (Crystal Palace), John McGinn (Hibernian), James Morrison (West Bromwich Albion), Matt Ritchie (Newcastle United), Robert Snodgrass (Hull City).

Forwards: Steven Fletcher (Sheffield Wednesday), Leigh Griffiths (Celtic), Chris Martin (Derby County), Steven Naismith (Norwich City).

britain
11-11-2016, 05:26
1962

B.Brown (Spurs)
B.Ritchie (Rangers)

A.Hamilton (Dundee)
B.Shearer (Rangers)
B.McNeil (Celtic)
I. Ure (Dundee)
D.McKay (Spurs)
E.Caldow (Rangers)

P.Crerand (Celtic )
H.Davis (Rangers)
A.Penman (Dundee)
F.McLintock (Leicester)
I.McMillan (Rangers)
J.White (Spurs)
J.Baxter (Rangers)

W.Henderson (Rangers)
A.Scott (Rangers)
I.St John (Liverpool)
J.Millar (Rangers)
A.Gilzean (Dundee)
D.Law (Torino)
R.Brand (Rangers)
D.Wilson (Rangers)

Standby
E.Connachan (Dunfermline)
D.Holt (Hearts)
D.Smith (Dundee Utd)
G.McLean (St Mirren)
C.Cooke (Aberdeen)
A.Young (Everton)
J.Hughes (Celtic)

11 Rangers players in that squad !

omegaman
11-11-2016, 16:47
I think it's fair to say that had it been the expanded competition it is now, Scotland would have qualified for each of the '62, '66 and '70 finals.

We were unlucky in as much as we were pipped in the '62 qualifiers by eventual finalists Czechoslovakia and the mighty Germans in 1970.

The Italians beat us to the finals in '66, but you're definitely looking at that 2-1 home defeat against the Poles going, "Yup! Typical Scotland that!"

buster
11-11-2016, 17:05
George Young, who was Scotland's most capped player by a distance, and would remain so for at least another decade, was sensationally dropped, when the pool was named.
No other Rangers players were in the squad.
Unbeliveable as it seems, I think Scotland only took 12 players, and two of them were goalkeepers!!!!!!!!!
I remember Docherty talking about the Uruguay game, saying we were already beaten in the tunnel, as these well tanned foreigners, in short shorts, lined up against Scotland in heavy shirts that were all made to fit George Young. As the game progressed, torrential rain, made these oversized shirts, so heavy, the players were knackered, and Uruguay ran out comfortable 7-0 winners.:D

My late uncle was one that made that squad (Brown / Blackpool)

britain
12-11-2016, 12:11
In 1978 Ally McLeod not playing Derek Johnstone who had scored 39 goals on 77/78 for us and the 2 Scotland goals in the 78 Home Internationals.

But playing Joe Harper...

Not taking Andy Gray !

Even 38 years on,this is to me, still astonishing!

bear1960
12-11-2016, 12:44
Dalglish was injured prior to the 86 tournament and was replaced by Steve Archibald.

buster
12-11-2016, 12:53
In 1978 Ally McLeod not playing Derek Johnstone who had scored 39 goals on 77/78 for us and the 2 Scotland goals in the 78 Home Internationals.

But playing Joe Harper...

Not taking Andy Gray !

Even 38 years on,this is to me, still astonishing!

McLeod had managed Harper at Aberdeen prior to becoming Scotland boss and might in part explain 'favouritism' although JH didn't get a look in for the Home Internationals in 78.

You look back at Argentina and you notice that Souness only played in the game against Holland.

britain
12-11-2016, 16:16
McLeod had managed Harper at Aberdeen prior to becoming Scotland boss and might in part explain 'favouritism' although JH didn't get a look in for the Home Internationals in 78.

You look back at Argentina and you notice that Souness only played in the game against Holland.

I think Harper being at Aberdeen under McLeod was the key to him going. Don't think he ever played for Scotland again after his sub appearance v Iran. He'd been banned in 1975 along with a few others after a game in Copenhagen.

MO_TxTruBlu
12-11-2016, 20:15
My late uncle was one that made that squad (Brown / Blackpool)

The original 'Bomber' Brown as he was known to his team mates at Blackpool, where he smashed the Scottish Transfer record fee when he joined them from East Fife in 1950 for 26,500.

He was an integral part of that great Blackpool side of the early fifties, that included Stanley Matthews, and Stan Mortenson, but was cruelly denied two FA Cup Final appearances through injury.

In 1955, he handed in a Transfer request, claiming he would only move North, back to Scotland.
Apparantly, Rangers were notified, and it was expected that Scot Symon (who had been his Manager whilst at East Fife) would bring him to Ibrox, but for whatever reason, it never materialised.

tazzabear
12-11-2016, 21:49
Without actually knowing the make up of the squad(s), I'd have voted for the 1962 set up.
We were narrowly beaten by Czechoslovakia in a play off and the Czechs then got to the final which would suggest they weren't too bad and we weren't that far behind them.

buster
12-11-2016, 22:00
The original 'Bomber' Brown as he was known to his team mates at Blackpool, where he smashed the Scottish Transfer record fee when he joined them from East Fife in 1950 for 26,500.

He was an integral part of that great Blackpool side of the early fifties, that included Stanley Matthews, and Stan Mortenson, but was cruelly denied two FA Cup Final appearances through injury.

In 1955, he handed in a Transfer request, claiming he would only move North, back to Scotland.
Apparantly, Rangers were notified, and it was expected that Scot Symon (who had been his Manager whilst at East Fife) would bring him to Ibrox, but for whatever reason, it never materialised.

It's funny but I never knew he had been nicknamed 'Bomber'. Probably came from the dig he could give a ball.
As you say Blackpool had some side in the 50's and he managed to get into the club's legends role for that decade (they restrict it to 5 players a decade). Good going seeing he suffered some bad injuries.

Before McFadden, he was the last Scot to score a winning goal for Scotland against France in Paris.
He was also the Forrest manager that was sacked to make way for Brian Clough.


More than anything it was family that kept him down south for the rest of his career, playing and managerial (apart from short spell in the Middle East). He didn't come back to Scotland to live until the late 80's after his kids had grown up. He said Rangers had been interested but hadn't been able to get a deal done and that line about wanting to get back up North doesn't really make much sense regards what I understand.

tazzabear
13-11-2016, 02:08
I was at the Poland Game, it was one of my first internationals, and I think we led 1-0, and gave up 2 goals in the last 5 mins.
The only good thing to come out of it was that Stein dropped both full backs, Alex Hamilton and Eddie McCreadie, and the centre half, Billy McNeil, and replaced them with John Greig, Davy Provan, and Ronnie McKinnon (all of Rangers) for the next game, which we won, defeating Italy 1-0 at Hampden.
We were back in with a chance, but horrendous injuries cost us the return game in Italy, and a great Scotland squad never made it to England.

Re the Italy away game, I understand that we played a centre half at centre forward that night.
If so, and despite the injuries you mention, was there not a better option than this?

Totaalvoetbal
13-11-2016, 03:43
I love the idea that despite the 7-0 defeat to Uruguay, if we took it more seriously and brought our best players we'd have been a force to be reckoned with. It's like an old guy in a pub who would have made it if it wasn't for the knee injury.

buster
13-11-2016, 09:13
I love the idea that despite the 7-0 defeat to Uruguay, if we took it more seriously and brought our best players we'd have been a force to be reckoned with. It's like an old guy in a pub who would have made it if it wasn't for the knee injury.

Uruguay were obviously better than us but the scale of the defeat was down to poor preperation and upheaval behind the scenes (mgmt.)

MO_TxTruBlu
13-11-2016, 10:18
Re the Italy away game, I understand that we played a centre half at centre forward that night.
If so, and despite the injuries you mention, was there not a better option than this?


Denis Law (and Jim Baxter) were out injured, but Jock Stein still had Alan Gilzean and Jim Forrest (and several other decent Centre Forwards) to call upon.
Stein played for the draw (which would have taken the game to a Play Off),
and in his wisdom, opted to drop Gilzean, and gave the No.9 shirt to Ron Yeats (Liverpool's Centre Half).
He also dropped Henderson, and played Jim Forrest at Outside Right!

I don't really think Yeats operated as a centre Forward, he was just another defender thrown in to stem the tide, to hopefully get us a draw, which backfired big time.

miraculous
14-11-2016, 00:40
Not forgetting that it was John Greig who scored in the 1-0 win against Italy.

i had a B&W 10x8 photo of that goal when i was wee

buster
14-11-2016, 07:29
Denis Law (and Jim Baxter) were out injured, but Jock Stein still had Alan Gilzean and Jim Forrest (and several other decent Centre Forwards) to call upon.
Stein played for the draw (which would have taken the game to a Play Off),
and in his wisdom, opted to drop Gilzean, and gave the No.9 shirt to Ron Yeats (Liverpool's Centre Half).
He also dropped Henderson, and played Jim Forrest at Outside Right!

I don't really think Yeats operated as a centre Forward, he was just another defender thrown in to stem the tide, to hopefully get us a draw, which backfired big time.

Agreed, it was the Italians who were capable of setting up to park the bus but probably very difficult and unusual for our players at that point, especcially if you start putiing players in foreign positions. Interesting that the game I'd have wanted the Italians to beat a team managed by Stein was one that he decided to attack,..... learnt his lesson ?

In all these years though, I think it's only one win that has been recorded by a Scottish team on Italian soil (against Italian team).....Rangers, under PLG winning 2-3 on a rainy night in Livorno, 2006/07.


ps. Mo,....your threads are the best in the Bear Pit.