PDA

View Full Version : The ironic comparison between Kenny Miller and Naismith / Lafferty



nelster
05-05-2010, 10:51
Kenny Miller was colossal last night. A menace. Top of his game.
A seasoned pro aged 31 (?)

We have Naismith and Lafferty. 22 years old. Raw and regularly doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Occasionally proving they have quality and ability.

They have to go. They dont contribute anywhere near what miller does is the concensus on here.

Rewind a decade and you will find that Kenny Miller had the same problems as these two. Talent. Some good moments. But ultimately frustrating as a player.

So what should the club do. Trust another club to buy them for buttons and make them seasoned pros. Then go back and buy them for 3 million when they are 30 when we will never get the money back and only a couple of years service that should have been a decade?

Tossing away international footballers as duds when they are 22 seems to be a key problem for Rangers FC.

Everyone learns as their career progresses. In every job type. Not every young footballer is Wayne Rooney.

Why then would the club sell 2 very good young resources for buttons to then get 2 journeymen leaving us back to square one in a couple of years.

Bigger picture at Rangers? No its purely about the next year and we will continue to muddle through year to year whilst the mindset is encouraged.

mikey1985
05-05-2010, 10:54
That was a good post but think of the money Rangers had when Miller was young, along with the players at there disposal. They could easily buy a better replacement or there were ppl already doing what he should have been. Its different now and cant see him gettibg rid of anyone who has potential, unless its silly money.

InsanicDrunk
05-05-2010, 10:57
Very good post Nelster, never thought of it that way.

Miller has certainly grown into a quality forward.

alfie88
05-05-2010, 10:57
very good post.....it wont be liked

jimren
05-05-2010, 11:06
If people would like to cast their minds back they will find that this trait of writing players off to soon happens all the time. How many wanted rid of McCoist in his first season with us, how many wanted rid of Hutton when he came back from injury. Just as in any walk of life the young ones have got to learn their trade before they become experienced just as Miller has done.

Saruhashi
05-05-2010, 11:10
Kenny Miller was colossal last night. A menace. Top of his game.
A seasoned pro aged 31 (?)

We have Naismith and Lafferty. 22 years old. Raw and regularly doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Occasionally proving they have quality and ability.

They have to go. They dont contribute anywhere near what miller does is the concensus on here.

Rewind a decade and you will find that Kenny Miller had the same problems as these two. Talent. Some good moments. But ultimately frustrating as a player.

So what should the club do. Trust another club to buy them for buttons and make them seasoned pros. Then go back and buy them for 3 million when they are 30 when we will never get the money back and only a couple of years service that should have been a decade?

Tossing away international footballers as duds when they are 22 seems to be a key problem for Rangers FC.

Everyone learns as their career progresses. In every job type. Not every young footballer is Wayne Rooney.

Why then would the club sell 2 very good young resources for buttons to then get 2 journeymen leaving us back to square one in a couple of years.

Bigger picture at Rangers? No its purely about the next year and we will continue to muddle through year to year whilst the mindset is encouraged.

Brilliant observation.

That's why it's hard for lads like these at Rangers. Mistakes are pounced upon and bad individual performances lead to bad results for the team that are unacceptable.

We need a better youth system, better scouting and better coaching. The solution might be to sign these lads young and send them out on loan for a few seasons before brining them back to the club.

What are the odds that we'll see Charlie Adam back in a Rangers jersey in the next five years?

GavCo
05-05-2010, 11:13
I don't think these players can develop in the SPL the way Miller did when he went south though.

JimmysGers1873
05-05-2010, 11:17
Pretty good point.

As poor as Lafferty and Naismith can be at times, we all know they're capable of producing quality. See Lafferty's last few performances and see Naismith against Hearts and Sevilla.

It's easy to forget how young they still are and with the right coaching should improve with age.

Eric_Cartman
05-05-2010, 11:26
Kenny Miller was colossal last night. A menace. Top of his game.
A seasoned pro aged 31 (?)

We have Naismith and Lafferty. 22 years old. Raw and regularly doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Occasionally proving they have quality and ability.

They have to go. They dont contribute anywhere near what miller does is the concensus on here.

Rewind a decade and you will find that Kenny Miller had the same problems as these two. Talent. Some good moments. But ultimately frustrating as a player.

So what should the club do. Trust another club to buy them for buttons and make them seasoned pros. Then go back and buy them for 3 million when they are 30 when we will never get the money back and only a couple of years service that should have been a decade?

Tossing away international footballers as duds when they are 22 seems to be a key problem for Rangers FC.

Everyone learns as their career progresses. In every job type. Not every young footballer is Wayne Rooney.

Why then would the club sell 2 very good young resources for buttons to then get 2 journeymen leaving us back to square one in a couple of years.

Bigger picture at Rangers? No its purely about the next year and we will continue to muddle through year to year whilst the mindset is encouraged.

A very good post mate.

ozbluenose
05-05-2010, 11:36
A voice of reason on here it will never catch on.

rangerstillidie
05-05-2010, 11:42
I see your point. However are you saying persevere with these two for ten years? How many new contracts do they deserve? Especially at the wages they are on.

The fact is they have not earned new contracts. So we need to get some money back on them before they walk for Zero.

frankbooth
05-05-2010, 17:10
hahaha we've to wait 10 years for them to put a foot in , jump properly and win a ball not shite out of 50/50's and justify their ridiculous transfer fees and wages.

what a crock of shit

Cranky
05-05-2010, 17:27
we need to see progression from them though right now there doesnt seem to be any

i can take poor performances but i cannot take a lack of heart and desire which is naismiths biggest problems for me

Gerdownthere
05-05-2010, 17:31
its a good OP but the i believe we'd be better loaning these players out till the mgt start to see some level of consistency from these players as the first team at Rangers is not where they should be learning their trade

wjm796
05-05-2010, 17:38
I always thought Miller was pretty good to be honest - he was just part of a genuinely fantastic squad.

Jannerbear
05-05-2010, 17:48
Agree wholeheartedly with this post. I think Lafferty in particular could be a massive player for us in years to come. We need to have patience with these players because in the current financial climate they are the future of Rangers FC.
Whittaker is another example of a player who could just get better and better with age. Thought he was very good last night.

dublinbluenose
05-05-2010, 17:52
its pretty obvious that walter see's miller and lafferty as the main striking partnership next season,hence why he's been playing them togeather in the last few weeks of the season.

jb_sow
05-05-2010, 17:57
I think it's a tad harsh to place Lafferty in the same bracket as Naismith.

Lafferty hasn't been here as long, but in my opinion has contributed far more to the cause in terms of goals/incidents.

larrydavidloyal
05-05-2010, 18:01
Good post. Yet in the past week I've heard that 18 isn't young in football and much worse poppycock. For both of their sakes though, I hope they are allowed to grow as strikers and not forced to slowly regress as left midfield "solutions".

larrydavidloyal
05-05-2010, 18:03
I think it's a tad harsh to place Lafferty in the same bracket as Naismith.

Lafferty hasn't been here as long, but in my opinion has contributed far more to the cause in terms of goals/incidents.

Naismith cost less, has a track record in the SPL and has suffered a horrendous injury playing for us.

They are equal in my eyes.

Not a criticism of either.

derbybear
05-05-2010, 18:06
Common denominator that on the left both were worse than shyte. Lafferty was better first half and Naismith 2nd.

But at 22 Naismith should learn to stay on his feet and Lafferty not to get involved -- you don't need to be 33 to do that!

munkoomccoist
05-05-2010, 18:09
Miller was a far better player than both at 22.

larrydavidloyal
05-05-2010, 18:13
Common denominator that on the left both were worse than shyte. Lafferty was better first half and Naismith 2nd.

But at 22 Naismith should learn to stay on his feet and Lafferty not to get involved -- you don't need to be 33 to do that!

At 22 I had a hell of a lot of growing up to do, and that was without being told how great I am and having the money to do whatever I like. At 23, I don't feel more capable of screwing the nut in intense situations...I'm not even sure these aspects can be changed in people.

Novo at 31 falls over more than Naisy and Miller at 30 moans at refs and opponents more than Lafferty. Thankfully both will learn the tactical ins and outs of their makeshift and actual positions as time passes as Miller has.

derbybear
05-05-2010, 18:19
At 22 I had a hell of a lot of growing up to do, and that was without being told how great I am and having the money to do whatever I like. At 23, I don't feel more capable of screwing the nut in intense situations...I'm not even sure these aspects can be changed in people.

Novo at 31 falls over more than Naisy and Miller at 30 moans at refs and opponents more than Lafferty. Thankfully both will learn the tactical ins and outs of their makeshift and actual positions as time passes as Miller has.

There were times yesterday when the game was going on and Lafferty was still sulking about not getting a decision and Naismith has given away fouls that have led tto important goals last night and in the CL at Ibrox.

Hows about we pay them wee boys wages until they can grow up:eek:

ozo
05-05-2010, 18:19
it would be a fair enough point if the players were 17 or 18 but at 22 (or 23 in Naismiths case) we should be expecting a bit more IMO. Its only in Scottish football it seems that guys that age are still considered to be raw youngsters, rather than players entering the peak years of their career.

usbear
05-05-2010, 18:23
fair point

i think you could argue that danny wilson is young

naismith and lafferty at 22 (or whatever) have had loads of experience by now (including international)

silverspurs
05-05-2010, 18:32
At a cost of nearly 6 million for both Lafferty and Naismith you would expect them to have the rudiments and a modicum of skill, neither appear to have any. Two bad buys.

larrydavidloyal
05-05-2010, 18:39
There were times yesterday when the game was going on and Lafferty was still sulking about not getting a decision and Naismith has given away fouls that have led tto important goals last night and in the CL at Ibrox.

Hows about we pay them wee boys wages until they can grow up:eek:

I don't really see much opportunity for maturation from the age that we become familiar with footballers until the end of their time with us to be honest. But the point is Kenny Miller has matured, even compared to last season his finishing is miles better and he's taken on the challenge of leading the line in Boyd's absence. But these are two tactical/skill related improvements.

Novo still falls over as Naismith does. Miller still moans as Lafferty does. McGregor still does stupid things at 27/28. Boyd still can't keep up his workrate. Rooney still gets booked for ridiculous reactions to decisions.

Some things won't change, yet all of these players are accepted despite limitations. Both were poor yesterday, but the point is, Miller hardly did anything for us bar allegedly talk to the media about internal issues. If he can emerge as a key player, the physically more gifted Lafferty and far more naturally talented Naismith should see light at the end of the tunnel.

rosstheger
05-05-2010, 19:33
Kenny Miller was absolutely outstanding last night.

bigkahunarab
05-05-2010, 19:35
Kenny Miller was colossal last night. A menace. Top of his game.
A seasoned pro aged 31 (?)

We have Naismith and Lafferty. 22 years old. Raw and regularly doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Occasionally proving they have quality and ability.

They have to go. They dont contribute anywhere near what miller does is the concensus on here.

Rewind a decade and you will find that Kenny Miller had the same problems as these two. Talent. Some good moments. But ultimately frustrating as a player.

So what should the club do. Trust another club to buy them for buttons and make them seasoned pros. Then go back and buy them for 3 million when they are 30 when we will never get the money back and only a couple of years service that should have been a decade?

Tossing away international footballers as duds when they are 22 seems to be a key problem for Rangers FC.

Everyone learns as their career progresses. In every job type. Not every young footballer is Wayne Rooney.

Why then would the club sell 2 very good young resources for buttons to then get 2 journeymen leaving us back to square one in a couple of years.

Bigger picture at Rangers? No its purely about the next year and we will continue to muddle through year to year whilst the mindset is encouraged.

Good point indeed, I guess the call is are they good enough....

kmongers
05-05-2010, 19:43
Does the fault then lie with the coaching staff.

We have Coisty who knew where the goal was and knew where to be at the right time in the box; we have Duranty one of the greatest post war mid-fielders we have had - blessed with natural skill and a nose for when to get into the box. Surely these two should be able to remove the rough edges and at times abject performances from Lafferty and Naismith? If thse 2 cannot/or are not prepared to learn off th ebest then what else can be done. Or, if Coisty an Duranty ain't uo to the coaching task then get someone in who is.

OmaGaz
05-05-2010, 19:45
that is an excellent post by the OP!!! big well done
have to agree with 100% everything you have said!!!

BroxiBlue
05-05-2010, 19:47
Miller was a far better player than both at 22.

Well said that man!

bry879
05-05-2010, 20:00
Good post Nelster ;)

We sometimes expect too much too early from our young players. The only problem is how long do you give these players' to finally reach their potential, I have heard that the average pro peaks at 27/28 so that would mean another 5 years of possible mediocrity which is obviously unacceptable.

As a club the size of ours must have success we cannot afford to carry too many passengers, I think both players will still be here next season as we can't afford replacements but if we are still having the same conversation about their form this time next year then they really should be heading for the exit door.

Zapp Brannigan
05-05-2010, 20:39
There is a point in the OP, but for every Kenny Miller who we get rid of only to want to buy back, there's another who we get rid of and barely hear about again.

Suppose it depends on what you make of the potential in Naismith and Lafferty.

davidab157
05-05-2010, 20:52
Excellent point but I think that players can learn things in the Championship that you won't in the SPL.

The examples of Burke/Adam/Miller etc. etc. becoming quality players down south isn't just based on poor coaching at Rangers, it's a combination of coaching and gaining experience in another league/country surrounded by people who are either in the same situation or have played 5+ seasons in the premiership against some of the best players in the world.

Popbear
05-05-2010, 20:59
Kenny Miller was colossal last night. A menace. Top of his game.
A seasoned pro aged 31 (?)

We have Naismith and Lafferty. 22 years old. Raw and regularly doing the wrong thing at the wrong time. Occasionally proving they have quality and ability.

They have to go. They dont contribute anywhere near what miller does is the concensus on here.

Rewind a decade and you will find that Kenny Miller had the same problems as these two. Talent. Some good moments. But ultimately frustrating as a player.

So what should the club do. Trust another club to buy them for buttons and make them seasoned pros. Then go back and buy them for 3 million when they are 30 when we will never get the money back and only a couple of years service that should have been a decade?

Tossing away international footballers as duds when they are 22 seems to be a key problem for Rangers FC.

Everyone learns as their career progresses. In every job type. Not every young footballer is Wayne Rooney.

Why then would the club sell 2 very good young resources for buttons to then get 2 journeymen leaving us back to square one in a couple of years.

Bigger picture at Rangers? No its purely about the next year and we will continue to muddle through year to year whilst the mindset is encouraged.

Great post.
I will admit to wanting naismith away, just do not see anything in him, no potential, nothing.
I am more than willing to give lafferty time. In the absence of boyd we need him to come good in his natural position. Also like the fact that he has took pelters this year and is still putting himself out there to be shot down. has shown a few glimpses with mazy runs, plenty of workrate (maybe trying too hard) and passion.
I think he might be the best example of what Nelster is saying.

hurleyreyes
05-05-2010, 21:11
Though I agree in essence with the OP, the real ages of the players paints a slight different slant on the post.

Miller left at 21.

Naismith is 24 in a few months. I had high hopes for him but I just cant see any hopes for improvement.

For what it is worth I was one who always said Adam should be kept.

I definetly think Lafferty can make it and should be persevered with.

cullybear
05-05-2010, 21:14
At a cost of nearly 6 million for both Lafferty and Naismith you would expect them to have the rudiments and a modicum of skill, neither appear to have any. Two bad buys.

That is true, but in Naismith's case, he did have something. Where did it go? Ask Walter and Ally! Hope Fleck doesn't go the same way, but can't help but think that Rangers is not the best place to improve as a footballer.:(

nelster
18-05-2011, 18:43
A rather arrogant Look At Me ! bump.

Was searching for something else, honest :D :) :) :)

InsanicDrunk
18-05-2011, 18:46
A rather arrogant Look At Me ! bump.

Was searching for something else, honest :D :) :) :)

Just glad I agreed!! :D :D

Manchester Bear_1872
18-05-2011, 18:52
At a cost of nearly 6 million for both Lafferty and Naismith you would expect them to have the rudiments and a modicum of skill, neither appear to have any. Two bad buys.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/javaImages/3d/69/0,,5~9595197,00.jpg

bigbluebroxi
18-05-2011, 18:55
Naismith has been better this season than Kenny Miller has ever been.

Thank feck we didnt get rid of him!

kclarkhall
18-05-2011, 19:00
I started reading this and didn't see the dates and I was thinking ...W..T...F?!?!

Bishopbriggs
18-05-2011, 19:02
Seriously, how so many wanted rid of Naismith is really worrying for me.

You could always see that the boy had attributes but a rotten run of luck with injuries curtailed his progress.

If he could finish INSIDE the box, he'd be top class.

Manchester Bear_1872
18-05-2011, 19:04
Seriously, how so many wanted rid of Naismith is really worrying for me.

You could always see that the boy had attributes but a rotten run of luck with injuries curtailed his progress.

If he could finish INSIDE the box, he'd be top class.

The same people now also think Fleck has "missed the boat"

AlfieScone
18-05-2011, 19:07
Miller was a far better player than both at 22.



Items required.


A bigger rod.

rupertdabear
18-05-2011, 19:10
wondered what the hell you were on about until i twigged the dates.

unbelievablewalter
18-05-2011, 19:20
i'd have agreed with this post if i was a member a year ago...
i have always said Lafferty reminds me of Miller as a player, we only have to look back to when Miller first signed for us to remember the criticisms "no first touch, couldn't hit a barn door" and look what happened.
I've always had the view that he'd turn out to be a better player than Miller ever was and hopefully the last 5 or so games are the beginning of that.

Naismith, to be honest, I never had the same high hopes for. When we signed him I was over the moon, to quote a post of mine on another forum:

second best signing we made over the summer
good stuff
I don't know who I thought the best signing was, Cuellar? Beasley? Whittaker? McCulloch?
Hindsight would suggest Cuellar but either way I was probably right.
His talent was there for all to see but when he got injured against St Johnstone I thought he'd miss his chance and never fulfil his potential. Thankfully finances stopped that happening - in days gone past we'd have signed a replacement and that would have been the end of his gers career.
Then he was superb as the lone striker against Sevilla and I thought he was back on track, only for him to get chucked back onto the bench and only make appearances sparingly.
Fortunately he got his chance with Mendes leaving forcing Davis back infield whenever one of Edu and McCulloch were unavailable and Naismith getting drafted in on the right more regularly and he hasn't really looked back.

Gunther Netzer
18-05-2011, 19:22
Stand up for the Champions and support the players in the team.

Typhoon
18-05-2011, 19:22
http://www.rangers.co.uk/javaImages/3d/69/0,,5~9595197,00.jpg

Hindsight is truly a wonderful thing. In the 6 or 7 months since the OP, Steven Naismith has learned and matured into a fine young Ranger. Let's not forget the horrific injury he suffered, where his recovery was as much psychological as it was physical. His energy and eye for a goal remind me of a young Durrant, and I hate to see a starting eleven without our dynamic young Number 14 on from the start. As for big Kyle, I feel he's added a bit of composure to his game. No doubt he is learning all the time from Jelavic, who I suspect is a fantastic mentor for the big Ulsterman. The best is still to come from both these young players, and I hope to see them both in Rangers Blue for many a year to come.

"54"

Bishopbriggs
18-05-2011, 19:26
Here Here Typhoon

:):):)

halfaperson
18-05-2011, 19:28
looks to be a very prophetic post

Iain18(7)2
18-05-2011, 19:35
At a cost of nearly 6 million for both Lafferty and Naismith you would expect them to have the rudiments and a modicum of skill, neither appear to have any. Two bad buys.

nice one ;)

skyblueranger
18-05-2011, 19:39
we need to see progression from them though right now there doesnt seem to be any

i can take poor performances but i cannot take a lack of heart and desire which is naismiths biggest problems for me


well I don't think you can still level that accusation against him :roll:


it's what FF does best though - give absolutely no room for any below par performances:(