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adamski
16-01-2009, 13:09
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the 85/86 Winners and 88/89 finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......

HRHXI
16-01-2009, 13:11
This should be a sticky!


For all the Murray mongs!

Pumbas_Nakasak
16-01-2009, 13:12
Dont confuse the issue with historical facts.

macdonsj
16-01-2009, 13:14
adamski its bigots like you that will confuse the pro-Murray people with such things as facts

you forget that those 44,500 were standing on the sides of hills watching the game - remember Murray built the stadium

Davyfaethenavy
16-01-2009, 13:15
He would've been here sooner but he was too busy building Ibrox stadium with his bare hands.:angel:

Elvis
16-01-2009, 13:17
How could we be filling a 44,500 stadium if it wasn't built until Murray arrived?

Also you failed to mention he literally walked across the Clyde to get to Govan.

Dave Angell
16-01-2009, 13:17
I thought we played in a crumbling stadium and were in Celtc's shadow before Murray took over & brought Souness to the club ?

frankfurterbear1
16-01-2009, 13:18
you forgot we had a ticket office and club shops not a portacabin and a deal with a sport shop who's about to go bust.

fbear
16-01-2009, 13:19
Murray kickstarting the Ibrox Revolution is not only one of the great myths of our time, it does a tremendous disservice to Holmes, imho.

bluebear
16-01-2009, 13:19
Great post mate.

Should clear a few things up for those who think other wise.


You missed out that we had a place for a pre-match pint in the Edmiston Club.

big_hec
16-01-2009, 13:19
those pesky FACTS eh?

WokinghamBear
16-01-2009, 13:19
You're not telling me that David Murray didn't form Rangers himself and build Ibrox with his own bare hands are you?:eek:


More seriously, Malborough bankrolled Holmes/Souness to make Rangers attractive to a prospective buyer.... David Murray is quoted as being worth 600m and I wish he'd take a leaf out of Malborough's book.

T9Row
16-01-2009, 13:21
Great post Adamski.

simply_the_best
16-01-2009, 13:21
We certainly were in a sad old state, thankfully sir moonbeams charged in and saved us to take us to where we are now :blink:

TNT
16-01-2009, 13:22
Hate to be pedantic but........

Holmes wasn't chairman when Souness came. He was CEO. He became chairman later.

John Paton was the chairman at the time - even though it was Lawrence Marlborough and David Holmes who pulled the strings.

Oh - and we also had a Basketball team too when Murray bought the club. He got rid of that at the end of the season. (He also done away with his Livingston Basketball team).

billywizz
16-01-2009, 13:22
Excellent thread Adamski, and an essential read for the less educated amongst us

billywizz
16-01-2009, 13:24
Murray kickstarting the Ibrox Revolution is not only one of the great myths of our time, it does a tremendous disservice to Holmes, imho.


I was in a discussion about this a couple of days ago, and i was informed that Rangers would be on their knees if Murray hadn't taken over, i informed said person of some of the facts laid out by Adamski, and was met with "who's David Holmes":eek:

bluescootger
16-01-2009, 13:24
Internet bile.:roll:

HRHXI
16-01-2009, 13:26
Wonder if Ewan Cameron would read this out live on air??

Get E-mailing Bears! Educate them!!!!


WE DESERVE BETTER

adamski
16-01-2009, 13:28
Hate to be pedantic but........

Holmes wasn't chairman when Souness came. He was CEO. He became chairman later.

John Paton was the chairman at the time - even though it was Lawrence Marlborough and David Holmes who pulled the strings.

Oh - and we also had a Basketball team too when Murray bought the club. He got rid of that at the end of the season. (He also done away with his Livingston Basketball team).


edited ;):)

ticket_master
16-01-2009, 13:29
I genuinely did not know that. Thanks for the education adamski

ger4life
16-01-2009, 13:29
Aye but he gave us 9 in a row so you can`t say anything bad about murray.


....Some bears are really needing to pull there heads out of the sand regarding murray.

Sir Duncan Ferguson
16-01-2009, 13:31
Can I add that Rangers broke the Scottish transfer record THREE times in the space of 15 months with the signings of Chris Woods (£600,000), Terry Butcher(£750,000) and Richard Gough(£1,500,000) long before Murray showed up ?

Throw in other big money signings before Minty showed up

Gary Stevens - £1,000,000
Mark Walters - £500,000
Ian Ferguson - £850,000
Kevin Drinkell - £500,000
Graham Roberts - £450,000

macdonsj
16-01-2009, 13:34
I was in a discussion about this a couple of days ago, and i was informed that Rangers would be on their knees if Murray hadn't taken over, i informed said person of some of the facts laid out by Adamski, and was met with "who's David Holmes":eek:

we are on our knees WITH him taking over
either that or bent over getting ****ed by the press, yahoos. politicians etc

billywizz
16-01-2009, 13:36
we are on our knees WITH him taking over
either that or bent over getting ****ed by the press, yahoos. politicians etc


That was my response mate, the ignorance of some fans is incredible

Laurieston Lad
16-01-2009, 13:36
I genuinely did not know that. Thanks for the education adamski

No offence to yourself but how can there be Rangers fans out there (and it seems there are many) that think Murray brought Souness in etc. I find that shocking.

REMEMBER THE WINK
16-01-2009, 13:40
Abut Murray saved us, surely there cant be any doubt about that, he put in hundreds of millions of his own money, you dont know what you are talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:roll::p:roll::p:roll::p :roll::p:roll::p>:)

adamski
16-01-2009, 13:44
No offence to yourself but how can there be Rangers fans out there (and it seems there are many) that think Murray brought Souness in etc. I find that shocking.

not to have a go at the poster who stated it, but there's a sizeable majority, who don't have a clue who anyone is outwith of the players they have watched

"baxter, oh aye heard of him, dunno about the others" :blink:

Laurieston Lad
16-01-2009, 13:49
not to have a go at the poster who stated it, but there's a sizeable majority, who don't have a clue who anyone is outwith of the players they have watched

"baxter, oh aye heard of him, dunno about the others" :blink:

I used to think that a minority of the support were like this but as time goes on I'm beginning to realise that I am one of the minority who are interested in or know about our clubs history. :(

eleventh floor
16-01-2009, 14:13
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the eventual finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......

To be printed on a flyer and handed out to the youngsters at the games, oh and some oldies too

Well done Adamski, ruffle of the hair for you my boy

Bluefin221
16-01-2009, 14:15
Can I add that Rangers broke the Scottish transfer record THREE times in the space of 15 months with the signings of Chris Woods (£600,000), Terry Butcher(£750,000) and Richard Gough(£1,500,000) long before Murray showed up ?

Throw in other big money signings before Minty showed up

Gary Stevens - £1,000,000
Mark Walters - £500,000
Ian Ferguson - £850,000
Kevin Drinkell - £500,000
Graham Roberts - £450,000

Dunc, was Iain Ferguson not also a Scottish transfer record between two Scottish clubs?

The Southern General
16-01-2009, 14:16
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the eventual finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.






And that's just on the park matters......



An excellent post. Worth noting that we were also officially - the richest and best supported club in Britian.

Almost_Blue
16-01-2009, 14:29
I thought the capacity was 36,000 during that time and it wasn't expanded upwards until later on. :(:confused:

Excellent post though, should be phoned into to Radio Cattolica and RR tonight

Bluedell
16-01-2009, 14:32
It should also be noted that during the whole of NIAR, Murray put NO cash into the club.

YOGI_GER
16-01-2009, 14:33
Well done Adamski, good idea. :)

Ravey
16-01-2009, 14:33
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/2508464652_d61c2c3197.jpg?v=0

thecount
16-01-2009, 14:34
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the eventual finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......


Could do with emailing a copy to that wee crunt Dodds C/O of the sun,
In his column to-day he more or less said everything we have won has been down to murrays stewardship, he implies we were in the grubber before murray, aye right, He got one thing correct the position we find ourselves in to-day is down to murray and assisted by smith :mad:

EllislandSqTrueBlue
16-01-2009, 14:42
An excellent post. Worth noting that we were also officially - the richest and best supported club in Britian.

Can anyone tell me our succeses under the previous administration in the prior 20 yrs to murray coming in? in terms of trophies etc - just interested?

krack182
16-01-2009, 14:44
Great post and should be kept to the top so everyone can have a read!

Many people aren't aware of these facts and surprise surprise, most will be pro-Murray!!

Read and Learn!!!

gazuk
16-01-2009, 15:04
I genuinely did not know that. Thanks for the education adamski

I know there are fans out there who don't know this, but can't believe someone who uses this board and has over 600 posts dosen't:blink:

womble 3
16-01-2009, 15:50
Can anyone tell me our succeses under the previous administration in the prior 20 yrs to murray coming in? in terms of trophies etc - just interested?


Now that takes the biscuit

jivman
16-01-2009, 15:55
I thought the capacity was 36,000 during that time and it wasn't expanded upwards until later on. :(:confused:

Excellent post though, should be phoned into to Radio Cattolica and RR tonight

Was 44,500 up until work began on the Club Deck and it dropped to 38000 or so.


Can anyone tell me our succeses under the previous administration in the prior 20 yrs to murray coming in? in terms of trophies etc - just interested?

www.rangers.co.uk

tuc
16-01-2009, 16:02
adamski its bigots like you that will confuse the pro-Murray people with such things as facts

you forget that those 44,500 were standing on the sides of hills watching the game - remember Murray built the stadium

not true only standing at ibrox when murray came were the enclosures

wolves bear
16-01-2009, 16:03
Can anyone tell me our succeses under the previous administration in the prior 20 yrs to murray coming in? in terms of trophies etc - just interested?

Try the honours list ffs, and look at the years you want.

macdonsj
16-01-2009, 16:09
Can anyone tell me our succeses under the previous administration in the prior 20 yrs to murray coming in? in terms of trophies etc - just interested?

1968 to 1988 then

I can think of 1 trophy we won (ECWC)

also
a Souness revolution
high profile players bought without leaving us destitute
the finest stadium in scotland built
4 league titles (on the way to 5)
5 Scottish Cups
9 League Cups
2 European QFs
1 European SF

adamski
16-01-2009, 16:16
1968 to 1988 then

I can think of 1 trophy we won (ECWC)

also
a Souness revolution
high profile players bought without leaving us destitute
the finest stadium in scotland built
4 league titles (on the way to 5)
5 Scottish Cups
9 League Cups
2 European QFs
1 European SF

including 2 trebles, which should have been 3 in 4 years 76,78,79


then we built a stadium

two2tango
16-01-2009, 16:23
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the eventual finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......

great post adamski.

look at that squad of players compared to our squad now!! and thats without including souness in the line ups mate, remember him!!!:D:D

Peanut
16-01-2009, 16:26
Some good points, a nice non-Emma Watson Friday thread from Bing himself, makes a change!

133richard
16-01-2009, 16:29
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

......


Liar!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:





:D

jimjohn
16-01-2009, 16:32
:D:D:D
not true only standing at ibrox when murray came were the enclosuresI think some one has just had a whoosh moment.

Yorkhill blue
16-01-2009, 16:37
It should also be noted that directly after winning the league in 1986/87 season ticket sales which had stood at around the 5,000 mark previously rocketed to around the 21,000 mark.

The season ticket era was well and truly in place and a result of the ability of the commercial department at the time to market us properly.

Sir Duncan Ferguson
16-01-2009, 16:37
Dunc, was Iain Ferguson not also a Scottish transfer record between two Scottish clubs?

Correct Bluefin.

westwoodrsc_gm
16-01-2009, 16:38
I am very against the current regime and wasnt aware of some of what you posted adamski - cheers for that :)

back the team - sack the regime
we deserve better

Boabmeister
16-01-2009, 16:39
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the eventual finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......

nit picking i know.but i doubt there were ever more than 44,000,with the average probably being 1 or 2 thousand less.:angel:

nelster
16-01-2009, 16:43
David Holmes in May 87. 'the bank are happy... There's no limits to how big this club can become'

The Treble Kings
16-01-2009, 16:47
Don't forget that Murray was one of those 44,000 fans at Ibrox every second week. You know he's a pyoor Rangers man and Bluenose...:roll:

macdonsj
16-01-2009, 16:50
It should also be noted that directly after winning the league in 1986/87 season ticket sales which had stood at around the 5,000 mark previously rocketed to around the 21,000 mark.

The season ticket era was well and truly in place and a result of the ability of the commercial department at the time to market us properly.

that when i got a season ticket
meant you guaranteed your Yahoo game seats

willywonka
16-01-2009, 16:58
No offence to yourself but how can there be Rangers fans out there (and it seems there are many) that think Murray brought Souness in etc. I find that shocking.

Age is the factor mate theres a lot of younger generation fans out there who dont dabble in the history of our once great club
:)

Red_White_and_Ajax
16-01-2009, 17:00
Age is the factor mate theres a lot of younger generation fans out there who dont dabble in the history of our once great club
:)

I had an argument with a 50 year old fan yesterday at work who told me most of the stuff that Adamski is arguing against ;)

si72
16-01-2009, 17:05
no doubt the Murrayite loyal will say that this is lies:roll:

woozy
16-01-2009, 17:32
I've printed this out on a business card sized bit of paper to be kept in my wallet and use when needed. I knew the facts, but could never recall specific dates when discussing this with people. No more excuses!


Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.
<snip>

usbear
16-01-2009, 17:42
might also be worth mentioning what he paid for the club...i remember him buying it for song if i'm not mistaken 5 million or something like that

thecount
16-01-2009, 17:43
nit picking i know.but i doubt there were ever more than 44,000,with the average probably being 1 or 2 thousand less.:angel:

Reserve matches against the mhanks used to get 30,000+ at Ibrox in the sixties, As for 44,000 average that was a small crowd before the redevelopment.

Yorkhill blue
16-01-2009, 17:43
might also be worth mentioning what he paid for the club...i remember him buying it for song if i'm not mistaken 5 million or something like that

I think it was around the 6 million mark with an inherited debt of around 7
million.

calvinist
16-01-2009, 17:59
I thought the capacity was 36,000 during that time and it wasn't expanded upwards until later on. :(:confused:



ibrox capacity was 44500 just before murray came in.

he promised that the club deck expansion would lift capacity to around 52000 and the filling in of the corners would lift capacity to around 59000.

in fact he was on a 9 in a row dvd bragging about it.

tens of millions of pounds later we have a capacity increase of around 7000 extra seats and a stadium that is still too small.

another royal *** up

Popbear
16-01-2009, 18:03
Stand up for David Holmes. conveniently forgotten by those who should know better.

Popbear
16-01-2009, 18:04
ibrox capacity was 44500 just before murray came in.

he promised that the club deck expansion would lift capacity to around 52000 and the filling in of the corners would lift capacity to around 59000.

in fact he was on a 9 in a row dvd bragging about it.

tens of millions of pounds later we have a capacity increase of around 7000 extra seats and a stadium that is still too small.

another royal *** up

Think the original quote for the club deck was 16 miil, ended up over 21 million for about 5000 seats:eek:

watty200
16-01-2009, 18:06
Great post Adamski, learned a few things in there. This thread should be stickied or kept near the top for all to see.

The Treble Kings
16-01-2009, 18:16
I'm astonished, and quite a bit saddened, that there's posters on here who're finding some of this out for the first time.

These should be accepted and acknowledged facts that all Gers supporters should know.

We've quite a battle ahead it seems.

calvinist
16-01-2009, 18:17
Think the original quote for the club deck was 16 miil, ended up over 21 million for about 5000 seats:eek:

overall expenditure topped 35 million,the piggery was rebuilt for around half that figure.

nice little earner for murray metals though......

calvinist
16-01-2009, 18:19
I'm astonished, and quite a bit saddened, that there's posters on here who're finding some of this out for the first time.

These should be accepted and acknowledged facts that all Gers supporters should know.

We've quite a battle ahead it seems.

its along the lines of 'tell a lie often enough and its accepted as truth'

its a shame given the amount of outstanding books on rangers history that are available

simply_the_best
16-01-2009, 18:21
I think it was around the 6 million mark with an inherited debt of around 7
million.



Are you sure about the debt, i thought Rangers were well off financially when murray took over.

The Treble Kings
16-01-2009, 18:21
It's along the lines of 'tell a lie often enough and its accepted as truth'



Most of it peddled by the Murrayites. The real enemy within.

derbybear
16-01-2009, 18:22
ya wee shyte! I gave you all that info waiting to be served in the Burgh Halls!!

Yorkhill blue
16-01-2009, 18:23
Are you sure about the debt, i thought Rangers were well off financially when murray took over.

I think it's pretty well accepted that there was a debt and I think it was around
that figure.

I will try and confirm it but there are many more posters more clued up on financial matters than I on the board.

simply_the_best
16-01-2009, 18:26
I think it's pretty well accepted that there was a debt and I think it was around
that figure.

I will try and confirm it but there are many more posters more clued up on financial matters than I on the board.



Seems a hell of a lot for those day's, some players were probably not earning much more than 500 a week :eek:

Yorkhill blue
16-01-2009, 18:32
Seems a hell of a lot for those day's, some players were probably not earning much more than &#163;500 a week :eek:

Probably a culmination of a decade of neglect by Malborough.

I would imagine you're not far off with regards to wage bill as I recall John
McLelland was on &#163;250 a week as club captain and one of the reasons for
his departure was an increased wage demand.

WEL1873
16-01-2009, 19:01
Aye but he gave us 9 in a row so you can`t say anything bad about murray.


....Some bears are really needing to pull there heads out of the sand regarding murray.

i'm one of the ones with his head in the sand.
i posted my rant last night about how we are directing our fury at the wrong man (murray) and should re-direct it to someone else.

after speaking to many of our fellow supporters, i am coming around to the facts that murray has put us here, not by his lack of vision but with his lack of making these 'visions' materialise.

i think i fear that we have turned into celtic from the mid nineties, where we are rising up against the club in order for our concerns to be recognised and to force a major change at the top of our club.

now i am all for change, but only if it is a step forward, not top take 2 steps back.

i love this club and our fantastic support, but i do hate the comparisons of those antics from our rivals past

Ger57
16-01-2009, 19:20
overall expenditure topped 35 million,the piggery was rebuilt for around half that figure.

nice little earner for murray metals though......

Agreed mate and some want Murray to build a Rangers museum (which is long overdue BTW).

Could you imagine it: "The Rangers Football Club were formed on Friday 25th November 1988...."

blues & twos
16-01-2009, 20:02
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the eventual finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......

So in the 10 years prior to Murray taking over, how many times had we won the league? - apparently statistics dont lie.

Invicta_Loyal04
16-01-2009, 20:12
Fantastic post. Some really interesting facts and a few i am ashamed not to have known. Mainly regarding the signings.

As mentioned above, get this on a flyer and distribute it tomorrow if poss. If not then Dundee utd on the 31st. Our 3m sale should have gone through by then.

bluecroft
16-01-2009, 20:13
Fantastic post.

The thing is Murray's poodles have re-written history to such an extent that many fans believe that he was somehow our (McCann type) saviour.

And all the shoite about him personally spending his OWN money on our club is just that, shoite. How the feck could we have amassed massive debt if it was his personal fortune that was buying players. :confused:

dublinbluenose
16-01-2009, 20:20
what David Holmes did as well was totally change the wage structure at ibrox so the we could attract the Butchers and the woods to Ibrox.The season before, John Mclelland went to watford because Rangers wouldn't give him an extra 50 a week,we almost lost Coop to similar sircumstances because of our tight fisted board.
the ship was well and truely turned before Murray got his hands on it.
Also David Holme gave one of the best interviews ever afer we won the title at pittodrie in 87,he looked in the camera and raised a toast and said "this is For every Rangers supporter in the world Rangers FC champions" off the cuff simple but brilliant

Edd 1873
16-01-2009, 20:22
what you mean thats not David Murrays name we are chanting ;)


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=t-mbapT3QgE

sam the bear
16-01-2009, 20:28
Hate to be pedantic but........

Holmes wasn't chairman when Souness came. He was CEO. He became chairman later.

John Paton was the chairman at the time - even though it was Lawrence Marlborough and David Holmes who pulled the strings.

Oh - and we also had a Basketball team too when Murray bought the club. He got rid of that at the end of the season. (He also done away with his Livingston Basketball team).

thats what the post says if you read it

bluecroft
16-01-2009, 20:30
what you mean thats not David Murrays name we are chanting ;)


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=t-mbapT3QgE:D:D

Remember that day so well:D

[did you not know that Murray was working away in the background?? He secretly (as he hates publicity) paid for Butcher's capture.;)]

Teddyjohn
16-01-2009, 21:19
We were also majority owned by Lawrence Marlbrough (Grandson of John Lawrence) who ran the Lawrence Building Empire from the States. they had ran up some real debts and were in the process of selling off major assets to satisfy the banks. This had had a short term impact on Rangers....in stepped Murray with his 6m bid on Souness' tip off.

Bit of deja vu here as this is all now happening to SDM!

Maxiglw
16-01-2009, 22:19
So in the 10 years prior to Murray taking over, how many times had we won the league? - apparently statistics dont lie.

Try www.rangers.co.uk

You will have to go through a poxy advert first to read the details of the greatest team in the world but they are there.

And some of us were there prior to those days, and at least we had a club to be proud of as it stood up for the fans - Willie Waddell(the man who really built Ibrox of today) in the centre circle telling the fans that the SFA could go raffle itself over threats of point deductions ending with the loud shout of "NO SURRENDER !" Yes i'd take those days again in a heartbeat compared to the lilly livered self serving leeches that pollute the corridors of our great club.

But then again i believe "WE Deserve Better"

macdonsj
16-01-2009, 22:41
So in the 10 years prior to Murray taking over, how many times had we won the league? - apparently statistics dont lie.

missing the point completely

the team & club had already been overhauled by the time
Murray continued & in some areas strengthed the good work already started

bob1873
16-01-2009, 23:03
you forgot we had a ticket office and club shops not a portacabin and a deal with a sport shop who's about to go bust.

In all this stuff that is the point - seriously we have the ticket facilities of a junior club. Thanks Davie your the man.

potterblue72
16-01-2009, 23:08
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the eventual finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......

The Truth Hurts!! Good post mate;)

Jan Fabel
16-01-2009, 23:16
Why is this not a 'sticky'?

TigerShaw
16-01-2009, 23:17
I am gobsmacked at some of the posts on this thread.

Those who didn't know abut this modern era have you ever heard of any of these guys?

Moses McNeil
Tom Vallance
James Bowie
Andy Cunningham
Tommy Muirhead
Sandy Archibald
Davie Meiklejohn
Jimmy Millar
Sammy Cox
Willie Woodburn
Ian McColl
Willie Waddell
Dougie Gray
Willie Thornton
Alan Morton
George Young
Jerry Dawson
Sandy Archibald
Torry Gillick
Bobby Shearer
Eric Caldow
Jim Forrest
Ralphie Brand
Jim Baxter
Jimmy Millar

that's all I can recall to mind at the mo, in my 3 glasses of wine clouded anger induced post :D And they all played for us before I was born, before anyone trots out the "I'm too young..." defence. Age is NO EXCUSE - I assume you can read??

Oh and btw - TigerShaw and Sam English aren't just folks' usernames on here!

Sometimes I really despair of my fellow Gers fans :(

Freespeech
16-01-2009, 23:43
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the eventual finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......


Hate to be pedantic but........

Holmes wasn't chairman when Souness came. He was CEO. He became chairman later.

John Paton was the chairman at the time - even though it was Lawrence Marlborough and David Holmes who pulled the strings.

Oh - and we also had a Basketball team too when Murray bought the club. He got rid of that at the end of the season. (He also done away with his Livingston Basketball team).

No disrespect intended to the op but..............

A post to educate people that had to be edited with regards the position that most on here are complaining about!!! And it's to made into a flyer???

Double standards.

newlandsmac
16-01-2009, 23:59
Great post Adamski - acquaint yourself with the facts, macdonsj;

The stadium was all seater with the exception of the old enclosure; the Copland Rd stand was built in the 70s ffs

All Murray did was fill in the corners - unlike Man U who had the same problem, Murray took the cheap option and filled them with screens instead of seats; he did of course add a useless club deck where you can't see the nearside of the pitch if you sit in the wrong seat, and he put pokey seats in the enclosure, where if you're over 5'5" your knees are practically over the shoulders of the guy sitting in front of you

Macdonsj' ignorance knows no bounds - he can only remember the ECWC, so has clearly forgotten the magnificent trebles, how we stopped 10 in a row when the Mhanks were in the EC every year and getting money from that, as well as forgetting all of the Scottish Cup and Scottish League Cup wins between 68-88.

When you've finished reading the history, Macdonsj, then you might want to scour the accounts for the last 20 years which will show unequivocally that Murray has taken out far more than he ever put in to our club.

Surge
17-01-2009, 00:45
An excellent post. Worth noting that we were also officially - the richest and best supported club in Britian.

I am not sure if that is 100% true, but it might well have been: it was a few years prior to Man U becoming successful under Ferguson, and they were still 2nd rate financially and on the field.

I do know that at that time we had the second biggest retail operation in the UK, second only to Manchester United.

Aided by the ban on the English teams playing in Europe, we were realistic bidders for the signature of any British player at that time: Butcher, Woods, Steven and Stevens were all absolutely at the top of their trade and we would have been competing with just about every club in Britain for their signature.

Changed days.

Baxtersbigtoe
17-01-2009, 00:51
Are you sure about the debt, i thought Rangers were well off financially when murray took over.

Urban myth number 678.

vallance_artist
17-01-2009, 00:57
Could do with emailing a copy to that wee crunt Dodds C/O of the sun,
In his column to-day he more or less said everything we have won has been down to murrays stewardship, he implies we were in the grubber before murray, aye right, He got one thing correct the position we find ourselves in to-day is down to murray and assisted by smith :mad:

Yes, I saw that at work today.
Probably written for him by some journo - no excuses for it though.

wwe
17-01-2009, 03:52
I'm not sure if I get this post. I agree with the points as clear facts- however- from 88 to 94 ish Murray really took Rangers forwards.

It seemed to go wrong trying to make that step from the workman-like triers of 92-93 to polished and regular challengers. Breaking the transfer record for Duncan Ferguson probably the start of the rot. We paid slightly more than Man U paid for Keane- who was better value?

It would be wrong to deny that those were freaking great times to be a Rangers fan. With a challenge coming form Celtic in 94-98- we weren't quite so dominant- but still put them in their place. Europe- a disaster year on year or which Walter should have walked. NIAR kept Walter in place well past his sell by date.

Advocaat's first two years were great- but again- we were spending money on the basis of exended runs in Europe- these runs were not achieved due to individual errors by players.

As David Edgar pointed out- somewhere around 2000 it started to go south.

Now it's a mess, no ifs ands or buts.

But to say that it wasn't better from 88-2000 compared to even 86-88, I would disagree. Celtic 87-88 were not a great team yet won the double- when Rangers settled down in 88-89 (with or without Murray's influence) we wiped our arse with them.

And to say it was better from 78-86 than 88-2000 is just plain shite.

carino
17-01-2009, 04:13
Are you sure about the debt, i thought Rangers were well off financially when murray took over.Between 1986 and 1988 David Holmes added to the club's existing borrowings to fund Souness and to prepare the club for sale.

They eventually reached circa &#163;9 million for which SDM assumed responsibilty when he bought the club in 1988.

At 2009 prices &#163;9 million is the equivalent of &#163;17.4 million.

wwe
17-01-2009, 06:59
Between 1986 and 1988 David Holmes added to the club's existing borrowings to fund Souness and to prepare the club for sale.

They eventually reached circa 9 million for which SDM assumed responsibilty when he bought the club in 1988.

At 2009 prices 9 million is the equivalent of 17.4 million.



Despite rising ticket prices, gates skyrocketing and increase in season tickets?

cumbernauld loyal
17-01-2009, 09:47
I used to think that a minority of the support were like this but as time goes on I'm beginning to realise that I am one of the minority who are interested in or know about our clubs history. :(

Dont come across as an uber. You dont know the age of the poster etc.

JobearGer
17-01-2009, 09:56
Great post mate.

Should clear a few things up for those who think other wise.


You missed out that we had a place for a pre-match pint in the Edmiston Club.

Unfortunately bluebear, it will not clear anything up:(
The Mintyites are clearly brainwashed with selective memories [a bit like the mhanky mhob from the East] so facts will do nothing to make them understand:confused::p

adamski
17-01-2009, 09:59
A few folk seem to have missed the point of this post, intentionally or unintentionally

I made this post to highlight the gross ignorance/stupidity of those who claim the club was playing to sub-standards crowds, and were going nowhere until Murray arrived in November 1988.

No-one is trying to deny the amazing domestic success ultimately enjoyed in the forthcoming 9 years.

What was intended was to show that we were already the 'market leaders'.

numanloyal
17-01-2009, 10:01
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the eventual finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......

Sorry Adamski, a good post

but i have to correct you on one part of your post

Steaua Bucharest were a top side but weren`t eventual finalists that year

The 1987/88 European Cup final was between PSV Eindhoven and Benfica, PSV won on pens.

the Rumanians reached the final 2 years earlier between Barcelona on pens

adamski
17-01-2009, 10:05
Sorry Adamski, a good post

but i have to correct you on one part of your post

Steaua Bucharest were a top side but weren`t eventual finalists that year

The 1987/88 European Cup final was between PSV Eindhoven and Benfica, PSV won on pens.

the Rumanians reached the final 2 years earlier between Barcelona on pens

you're right, I was thinking of the following season, where they played AC Milan :o

JVB1975
17-01-2009, 11:14
I think it is an excellent post and discussion - and we should never forget the work that was done by Holmes to kick start the Souness Revolution and restore success to our great club.

But as you can see from some of the less hysterical posts the club was up for sale, had debts and needed financial muscle to take the next step forward. Now whether many of us like that or not that came in the shape of Murray.

In the years that followed he has backed (albeit to differing degrees depending on the financial climate at the time) Souness, Smith, Advocaat, McLeish, le Guen and Smith again with transfer budgets to deliver trophies. Whether that has been achieved is down to the respective managers.

At the same time the stadium was redeveloped (club deck, enclosures, corporate entertaining, club 72 etc) our marketing of the Rangers brand worldwide has improved (in 1987 I bought a rangers whiskey glass by ticking a box on the back of the Rangers News and sending it off with a postal order) and we've all enjoyed the great times from 9IAR to the march to Manchester.

Yes there have been disappointments and frustrations. Yes there have been times when we were made to feel like customers not supporters and the club has seemed like a business not an institution - but frankly this is the modern economic climate we live in. And yes there have been many, many, too many times when we think we have bought the wrong player or gone in the wrong direction - but what great institition hasnt made mistakes? Its up to the fans to uphold the traditions and support the team and let the management continue to run the club - but work TOGETHER when times are hard. Just as they are now.

Lets make no mistake Murray could raise the 3m tomorrow by selling the brand name of Ibrox to a major company (just like the Emirates Stadium or the Allianz Arena) but he hasnt because there would be uproar from the fans (just as there was when the idea was mooted a few years back). Instead he has asked the manager to trim the playing staff to reduce the wage bill and receieve a fee. Now unlike many on here I am a Boyd fan and will be genuinely gutted if he leaves - but he has been the only player that we have received a realistic bid for.

As much as we all love the club I think there are many more people than the "Murray-ites" (a title with which I'm sure I'm about to be branded!) with their heads in the sand. No business entity - and that includes football clubs whether we like it or not - is immune to the current situation. When Iceland (a country for crying out loud) goes bankrupt, when Lehman Brothers in the US (the biggest investment bank in the world) goes bankrupt, when our high streets lose names that have been around for centuries (Woolworths etc) when they go bankrupt - and when closer to home the very bank which holds our debt and our accounts needs to be saved then we all have to collectively wake up. We are not immune.

We do deserve better - but where do we really think a miracle buy out of Murray is going to come from? When even some banks need the government to keep stepping in - who really wants to buy a football club that plays the majority of its football in Scotland?

We do deserve better - and we will enjoy the glory days again. But lets join forces rather than divide. By all means lets moan and beat our chests on here about Smith's latest tactical disaster or dodgy signing - but lets get behind the team today and lets get within TWO points of our deadliest rivals and lets trust (and i know for many this will be hard) that Murray is doing the best for this club. And if that fails then Im sure you can agree to at least content yourself that he is protecting his investment!

We do deserve better - and we are all in this together. We are stronger when we join forces and I hope today at Ibrox the singular most important thing to all of us is to get behind the 11 players that Smith picks. And in the spirit of what I've just said I will try not to moan even if he picks Adam on the left!

We do deserve better - and we will get there - because we are the people.

JVB

PEDROK
17-01-2009, 12:16
Great post ..These are the facts that have to forwarded to the Murray saved Rangers press ..

Dr_Seuss
17-01-2009, 12:21
part of the thing about ' Murray gave us 9IAR' that annoys me is that at that time we could invest almost all our money in strengthening the playing squad.

Other clubs were having to play catch up with stadium developments where as,prior to Murray, Willie Waddle had the foresight to make Ibrox all seated.

Mind you we paid the price for that in the early eighties, and one of the few regrets I have as a Bear was the demos (that i attended) and abuse directed at Waddle at the time:o

wwe
17-01-2009, 14:41
A few folk seem to have missed the point of this post, intentionally or unintentionally

I made this post to highlight the gross ignorance/stupidity of those who claim the club was playing to sub-standards crowds, and were going nowhere until Murray arrived in November 1988.

No-one is trying to deny the amazing domestic success ultimately enjoyed in the forthcoming 9 years.

What was intended was to show that we were already the 'market leaders'.


We had won the league twice in ten years. :eek:

The more things change etc

adamski
19-01-2009, 11:52
We had won the league twice in ten years. :eek:

The more things change etc

and we've won it only four of the last twelve


The two and a half years prior to Murray's arrival had witnessed a complete overhaul of the Rangers

BakuBear
19-01-2009, 12:01
It should also be noted that directly after winning the league in 1986/87 season ticket sales which had stood at around the 5,000 mark previously rocketed to around the 21,000 mark.

The season ticket era was well and truly in place and a result of the ability of the commercial department at the time to market us properly.

Not sure of the stats but my Da bought me :o my 1st season ticket in the 85/86 season as I think that 5,000 mark took a jump upon the Souness arrival and sending off at Fester Road >:)
I am sure the most of the Copland Road (7.5 th) was season ticket in the 1st year of awakening the sleeping giant.

This said I think my Dad did take advice from an Edinburgh based buisnessman with little interest in football at that time. :angel:

Earl of Leven
19-01-2009, 12:06
Club didn't exist until Nov 1988. It was all lie, like landing on the Moon and that.

southbelfastbear
19-01-2009, 12:09
This should be printed in a leaflet and distributed.

carino
19-01-2009, 12:16
and we've won it only four of the last twelve


The two and a half years prior to Murray's arrival had witnessed a complete overhaul of the Rangers
Of that there is no doubt Adamski.

But it was done by Lawrence Marlborough trebling borrowings to circa &#163;9 million and ramping season ticket prices - an upgraded Waddell Suite ticket, for example, ( trestle tables and floorboards to finger buffet and carpet ) went from &#163;75 to &#163;400 ( &#163;156 to &#163;836 at today's prices ) in two years.

Fans encouraged by our domination over clubs less well funded ( 1987 - 1988 excepted ) were undeterred by the price increases and bought season tickets in their thousands.

That business model as we now know was seriously unsustainable.

Tugay At Sweeper
19-01-2009, 12:17
'Ibrox' was a sellout before Murray came?


Murray built Ibrox himself ffs.

Dukebox
19-01-2009, 13:06
Great post , make it a sticky !

balbedie
19-01-2009, 13:34
good reading for the SDM haters, but a truer picture would be a comarison with the state of the club prior to GS's arrival when we were owned by a disinterested builder based in America

Laudrup1
19-01-2009, 14:22
good reading for the SDM haters, but a truer picture would be a comarison with the state of the club prior to GS's arrival when we were owned by a disinterested builder based in America

That comparison sits fine with me too. As mentioned in the post for rough timescales when someone had asked the success of the 20 years previous to Murray, the first ten had been very successful and the last 10 were pretty horriffic.

As someone already said (though maybe not on the same topic), the more things change...

adamski
20-01-2009, 17:10
Of that there is no doubt Adamski.

But it was done by Lawrence Marlborough trebling borrowings to circa 9 million and ramping season ticket prices - an upgraded Waddell Suite ticket, for example, ( trestle tables and floorboards to finger buffet and carpet ) went from 75 to 400 ( 156 to 836 at today's prices ) in two years.

Fans encouraged by our domination over clubs less well funded ( 1987 - 1988 excepted ) were undeterred by the price increases and bought season tickets in their thousands.

That business model as we now know was seriously unsustainable.


nodoby is doubting that Carino, well I certainly won't anyway

But the important part to remember is that we were already back in our rightful position

carino
20-01-2009, 18:00
nodoby is doubting that Carino, well I certainly won't anyway

But the important part to remember is that we were already back in our rightful position
Indeed we were Adamski.

But the Marlborough / Holmes model had limited shelf life because Lawrence Marlborough could not provide collateral for funding to sustain it.

As it transpired SDM arrived and in doing so provided that collateral which with a modified business plan kept us at or close to the top in domestic terms for circa ten years.

Around 2000 or even slightly earlier the SDM model became no longer viable and it has been more or less downhill all the way since then.

Finding a business model capable of stopping that downhill slide while keeping costs in line with income, which does not impact squad quality while simultaneously winning SPL titles and ensuring post-New Year holiday European football is the challenge - and all of that while delivering fan demands to defend the club from its detractors.

I suspect we may have a long wait for a new majority shareholder. :(

dustythedog
20-01-2009, 18:43
Indeed we were Adamski.

But the Marlborough / Holmes model had limited shelf life because Lawrence Marlborough could not provide collateral for funding to sustain it.

As it transpired SDM arrived and in doing so provided that collateral which with a modified business plan kept us at or close to the top in domestic terms for circa ten years.

Around 2000 or even slightly earlier the SDM model became no longer viable and it has been more or less downhill all the way since then.

Finding a business model capable of stopping that downhill slide while keeping costs in line with income, which does not impact squad quality while simultaneously winning SPL titles and ensuring post-New Year holiday European football is the challenge - and all of that while delivering fan demands to defend the club from its detractors.

I suspect we may have a long wait for a new majority shareholder. :(

Carino, It was evident ten years ago that we needed a proper youth development scheme in place as it was the only way forward and this has been his biggest crime. It was also obvious that we could not continue with the then current business model 10 years ago and this is where anyone with vision would have changed the way we are run. Murrays lack of vision 10 years ago is now killing us.

carino
20-01-2009, 18:58
Carino, It was evident ten years ago that we needed a proper youth development scheme in place as it was the only way forward and this has been his biggest crime. It was also obvious that we could not continue with the then current business model 10 years ago and this is where anyone with vision would have changed the way we are run. Murrays lack of vision 10 years ago is now killing us.
dusty,

I respectfully draw your attention to my sentences : "Around 2000 or even slightly earlier the SDM model became no longer viable and it has been more or less downhill all the way since then." and : ".....while keeping costs in line with income, which does not impact squad quality while simultaneously winning SPL titles and ensuring post-New Year holiday European football is the challenge."

We are all wonderful with twenty twenty hindsight but it will take an immense talent to introduce a youth policy while delivering titles and European participation demanded by fans - not so easy and perhaps not even possible

dustythedog
20-01-2009, 19:02
dusty,

I respectfully draw your attention to my sentences : "Around 2000 or even slightly earlier the SDM model became no longer viable and it has been more or less downhill all the way since then." and : ".....while keeping costs in line with income, which does not impact squad quality while simultaneously winning SPL titles and ensuring post-New Year holiday European football is the challenge."

We are all wonderful with twenty twenty hindsight but it will take an immense talent to introduce a youth policy while delivering titles and European participation demanded by fans - not so easy and perhaps not even possible

Thanks for being repectfull :) Many writers in FF were stating from about 1998 taht we had to go down the youth route which I agreed with. If it had of been implemented back in the mid 90s then it would be bearing fruit now. Its not a case of going from a team spending millions to a team full of youths but rather a caase of gradually relying more on youth. It wa sreally obvious from about 98 onwards things had to change.

carino
20-01-2009, 19:10
Thanks for being repectfull :) Many writers in FF were stating from about 1998 taht we had to go down the youth route which I agreed with. If it had of been implemented back in the mid 90s then it would be bearing fruit now. Its not a case of going from a team spending millions to a team full of youths but rather a caase of gradually relying more on youth. It wa sreally obvious from about 98 onwards things had to change.There is no way to stand that up so it is speculation.

Empirical evidence suggests that clubs at any level seldom, if ever, produce adequate young talent to fill their first team.

This is especially true about clubs at the top of their national leagues - and emphatically true about those who contest the later stages of European competition.

Davie Wilson
20-01-2009, 22:40
Didn't Advocaat go on record as saying that the big money signings had to stop and we should go down the route of bringing through youth with a few experienced big names signed to help them?

Range-Rover
20-01-2009, 22:53
Brilliant Adamski, only thing is, the history book where all this information is stored, was it sanctioned by Moonbeams, if Murray and his storm troopers say it's not rue, then the one's like you and me who know the facts, are phuked.

Laudrup1
20-01-2009, 23:40
Carino, It was evident ten years ago that we needed a proper youth development scheme in place as it was the only way forward and this has been his biggest crime. It was also obvious that we could not continue with the then current business model 10 years ago and this is where anyone with vision would have changed the way we are run. Murrays lack of vision 10 years ago is now killing us.



Finding a business model capable of stopping that downhill slide while keeping costs in line with income, which does not impact squad quality while simultaneously winning SPL titles and ensuring post-New Year holiday European football is the challenge - and all of that while delivering fan demands to defend the club from its detractors.



I'll ask again how Celtic have managed it in the last ten years?

Making the correct managerial appointments would be crucial. Murray's failed in that respect time too often and in too many other calls too.

dustythedogs example is just another one of the things that could have helped us had Murray listened ten years ago instead of singing Christiansen and Jeffers types.

salmo-trutta
20-01-2009, 23:53
Great post Adamski ,Rangers were in good shape when Murray took over in 1988 ,The team was playing to a full house every home game, most games were all ticket , we had internationals at the top of their game plying their trade at Ibrox ,we were one big happy family in it together ,oh how things have changed :mad:

Baxtersbigtoe
20-01-2009, 23:57
It does, however, beg the question why the club was for sale?

Yorkhill blue
21-01-2009, 00:01
It does, however, beg the question why the club was for sale?

Because Malborough wanted to concentrate on his golf course projects in Nevada and needed capital.

Baxtersbigtoe
21-01-2009, 00:04
There is no way to stand that up so it is speculation.

Empirical evidence suggests that clubs at any level seldom, if ever, produce adequate young talent to fill their first team.

This is especially true about clubs at the top of their national league who contest the latter stages of competition.

As you say: the evidence is there and it is far from circumstantial - with the possible exception of Ajax.

carino
21-01-2009, 01:56
I'll ask again how Celtic have managed it in the last ten years?

Making the correct managerial appointments would be crucial. Murray's failed in that respect time too often and in too many other calls too.

dustythedogs example is just another one of the things that could have helped us had Murray listened ten years ago instead of singing Christiansen and Jeffers types.I'll answer - again. :D

If the question in bold is in reference to Celtic's youth development compared to ours it is questionable if it has been more successful but opinion on that is of course subjective.

If it refers to finance the answer is much more conclusive.

In financial terms Celtic have over ten years been the beneficiary of a 15 million rights issues and a very conservative 4 million every year from additional season ticket sales.

Which means over ten years their income from season ticket sales and the rights issue was 55 million ( 10 x 4 million + 1 x 15 million ) more than we enjoyed.

Of that 55 million 31 million ( 4 x 4 million + 1 x 15 million ) has been generated since the arrival of Gordon Strachan.

SidcupLoyal
21-01-2009, 02:09
I was in a discussion about this a couple of days ago, and i was informed that Rangers would be on their knees if Murray hadn't taken over, i informed said person of some of the facts laid out by Adamski, and was met with "who's David Holmes":eek:


Wasn't David Holmes a porn star?......:D

Steve A Stevens
21-01-2009, 02:18
It should also be noted that during the whole of NIAR, Murray put NO cash into the club.

Ouch!!!

Now that was a sore one.

soap mctavish
21-01-2009, 02:53
Arguements aside;can the point be made that David Murray bought an already successful football club,on it's way to foreseeable(:eek:)domestic dominance?

Sellik were clearly on the way down (IMHO) when he took the reigns.

Since that mob have had a guy with balls,who will play to his audience,he has
clearly thought "nobody said there would be a challenge!"

Murray thinks of himself 1st,2nd,3rd,and at some point The Rangers.

Probably when someone asks him who he is......

I just want him to run our Club the way he obviously did to earn his millions.

ie;put the correct people in the correct jobs,and don't forget that,

THE (ahem)CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!



I hate Rangers right now.In the same way that I would hate my best mate cheating on his wife.

I want to boot him in the scrote till kids are an impossibility.

but he's a mate.:(

adamski
30-07-2009, 12:19
Brilliant Adamski, only thing is, the history book where all this information is stored, was it sanctioned by Moonbeams, if Murray and his storm troopers say it's not rue, then the one's like you and me who know the facts, are phuked.

It's the supporters duty to make this known.

The club as it stands is ashamed of anything prior to 20 years ago

Earl of Leven
30-07-2009, 12:44
We could argue all day and night re youth systems and scouting but what was clear then was that we had to try. There are no guarantees of success but spending &#163;2.6m on Jesper Christianisson who had been a goalkeeper in a top league for 16 games (not seasons, games) was leading us nowhere. This was obvious and many of us said so.

Carino is right to state it is all guesswork but I am not alone in guessing that had we invested money rather than just spent it we'd be in a better shape now.

There is also no excuse for club STILL playing at it as regards youth football and scouting....the warning signs have been flashing since 2000 at least and a club like ours has NO chance of using financial muscle to improve its lot.

Gauche.
30-07-2009, 12:50
A lot of people forget how not long before he took over at Ibrox Murray had tried very hard to buy Ayr Utd,the club he had supported all his life.Many of is supporters may say Muray is a Rangers fan,but for me he never has been and never wil be.

omegaman
30-07-2009, 14:10
While no fan of the current chairman, I seem to recall his takeover in '88 being sold on the premise that he was the man with the clout to take us to the next level, something Holmes appeared to admit was not something he could do.

And to be fair to Murray, it could be argued that he initially did.

That his judgment was questionable when refusing to dismiss a manager who was evidently incapable of translating the financial muscle he'd provided into the European success it was attempting to buy is not in doubt.

Neither was the mess his lack of foresight, cavalierism, egotism and negligence ultimately left us in.

But he did stump up the readies (or swindle others into doing likewise) to buy a quality of player (e.g. Laudrup, Gascoigne, Mikhailichenko, Thern, etc) above that seen under Holmes as well as increasing the stadium's capacity and therefore the club's turnover (albeit at a price some still question today).

That he's been a busted flush for the past decade goes without saying, but for a while Murray did appear to put his money where his mouth was and around '89 / 90 we were being spoken of as Britain's richest club.

Hindsight suggests that on balance we should probably have avoided him like the plague, but I can't remember there being any other viable alternatives to him at the time.

jicre
30-07-2009, 15:33
Thank you to the man that got richer and a knightdhood for making us much much poorer, in every department and leaving us without a name.

adamski
27-08-2009, 10:58
Given the current discussion, I thought it worthwhile to remind the board of this thread

hyramotyre
27-08-2009, 11:06
Given the current discussion, I thought it worthwhile to remind the board of this thread

:roll:

It's all lies. You're just a Murray hater.

Sir David built Ibrox with his own two hands.









:angel:

The Big Cheese
27-08-2009, 12:32
Great post adamski.

Don't want to go too deeply into things but the thing that really gets me is the lack of knowledge/respect afforded to the role of David Holmes by not just Rangers fans but by the media, who if they are anything approaching decent at their job shouldn't have any trouble unearthing these facts.

britain
27-08-2009, 12:57
He would've been here sooner but he was too busy building Ibrox stadium with his bare hands.:angel:

No that was actually Sir Davie of Weir:D

toofurrapound
27-08-2009, 13:28
The way it seems on FF is that there are 2 sets of fans, those that hate Murray and those that don't.
It's not as clear cut as that, there's been good and bad times but the bad times have come towards the end of his reign.
He's made mistakes and admitted that, but he's been here for 20 years and it would have been in Rangers best interests if that had only been 15 years.

We're in limbo till a new owner comes in and we have to just accept that until it happens.

flany-kpl
27-08-2009, 13:31
Murrayites and such names. What a sad bunch.

Baxtersbigtoe
27-08-2009, 13:35
Great post adamski.

Don't want to go too deeply into things but the thing that really gets me is the lack of knowledge/respect afforded to the role of David Holmes by not just Rangers fans but by the media, who if they are anything approaching decent at their job shouldn't have any trouble unearthing these facts.

Well, that's a sure fire non-starter.:p

gordon_blue
27-08-2009, 13:45
It should be pointed out that most of the players mentioned above, certainly the English ones were tempted up here because English sides were banned from Europe. That coincided with the Holmes/Souness revival.

We also had an excellent corporate/sponsorship/pools set-up which brought in lots of extra revenue.

In 1989, the Hillsborough disaster forced clubs to spend millions on their grounds. We already had Ibrox ready and could spend the money on players. Others could not - so, we dominated.

Not long after Murray arrived, many of these circumstances changed and he had to bankroll the ensuing success - which he did to a certain extent.

But - he also squandered millions on signing and paying the wages of the likes of Boli, Prodan, Rozenthal, Thern, Kanchelskis, Kuznetzov, Salenko, Duncan Ferguson, Adamczuk, Flo, Bernard, Jeffers, Capucho and others.

We still believed that we were bringing in enough money to pay for all this - but we now know this to be untrue. And now we are in the position of having no money at all.

kirkieger
27-08-2009, 13:59
Lawrance Malborough/David Holmes funded the Souness era by borrowing against future season ticket sales, as previously stated we only sold 5,000 a year prior to Holmes appointment. It was a massive gamble which could have proved disastrous if things hadn't worked out so well. Leeds tried the same thing and look where they are!

Murray bought the club for &#163;6m and added his financial clout to guaranteeing this debt but talk of him "bank rolling" anything is nonsense. The only "money" he has put into the club, remember his initial &#163;6m went to the Malboroughs, was the &#163;50m he underwrote the shares issue with, which effectively was his debt anyway.

bluebear53
27-08-2009, 16:26
While we're on the subject, then, Robert Maxwell was trying to buy the club at the same time.
I vaguely remember SDM stating the he had "kept the Club in Scottish hands."

adamski
04-11-2009, 10:47
It should be pointed out that most of the players mentioned above, certainly the English ones were tempted up here because English sides were banned from Europe. That coincided with the Holmes/Souness revival.

I don't think you'll find anyone who can deny that.

The difference was, they knew exactly how to exploit the situation. The only exploitation nowadays is of ourselves

coist9
04-11-2009, 10:53
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the 85/86 Winners and 88/89 finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......



Superb post for all the Murrayites Adamski :)

bluecakeo
04-11-2009, 11:35
[QUOTE=adamski;8004126]Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the 85/86 Winners and 88/89 finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......[/QUOTE/]

In fairness there wasn't the same wealth in the English Premiership and they were also banned from European football which allowed us to easily bring in the top England internationals during that period.

Financially, it is a different world nowadays.......you can't lay the blame all at Murrays doorstep

Fermanaghblue
04-11-2009, 11:38
Can anyone tell me our succeses under the previous administration in the prior 20 yrs to murray coming in? in terms of trophies etc - just interested?

We should only look at Murray's last decade with the club as we never really had competition in the first. Although our trophy count is near to the mhanks in this decade we shouldn't really be comparing ourselves with them. We're finished as things stand now and its Murray's fault. We may have been crap for some of the 70's and 80's but we were never on our knees being whored around for a buyer.

adamski
04-11-2009, 11:39
In fairness there wasn't the same wealth in the English Premiership and they were also banned from European football which allowed us to easily bring in the top England internationals during that period.

Financially, it is a different world nowadays.......you can't lay the blame all at Murrays doorstep

You didn't read the original post, despite quoting it did you?

What I posted was information that the "sands of time" seem to have deliberately obscured.

caltonexile
04-11-2009, 11:50
not true only standing at ibrox when murray came were the enclosures

it amazes me that willie waddell who was the man who was the driving force in getting us a new stadium and david holmes who got souness to ibrox seem to be getting airbrushed out of our history

The Busby Bear
04-11-2009, 11:54
The fact is it was David Holmes who started the Souness Revolution and so many people forget it.

mrtrick
04-11-2009, 11:57
Murray was a silent partner who built Ibrox, bought all the players, and coached them all when we won everything in our history, and only went public about his ownership when he was forced to by the loonies at the RST, and it's their fault we are in the mess we are in.

Changed to the revisionist Murrayite version. After all, some people would believe anything that shows the Chief Charlatan in a good light.

caltonexile
04-11-2009, 12:00
Changed to the revisionist Murrayite version. After all, some people would believe anything that shows the Chief Charlatan in a good light.

that will change soon i have a feeling the worst has still to come

WBD
04-11-2009, 13:03
To be printed on a flyer and handed out to the youngsters at the games, oh and some oldies too

Well done Adamski, ruffle of the hair for you my boyOh no, don't do that, trust me >:)

adamski
04-11-2009, 13:04
Oh no, don't do that, trust me >:)
:D:D

VDH & Junior are still doing it :mad:

Davie Wilson
04-11-2009, 21:06
1968 to 1988 then

I can think of 1 trophy we won (ECWC)

also
a Souness revolution
high profile players bought without leaving us destitute
the finest stadium in scotland built
4 league titles (on the way to 5)
5 Scottish Cups
9 League Cups
2 European QFs
1 European SF

This is quote staggering. It doesn't look much in Rangers terms but is pretty decent considering we were during that time up against Stein, Ferguson and McLean.

chief
05-11-2009, 01:34
great original post.

adamski
31-03-2011, 08:56
I felt this may be an appropriate time to digest the position we were in when our last new owner rode into town.

jiec
31-03-2011, 09:08
So many so called fans who don't have the first clue about the gers, can't believe someone said that murray built ibrox,mr Murray is not the saviour he is made out to be and IMO he has taken plenty from us do font be kidded that he walks away with a loss, doubt that very much,if he wants I will pick him up and drive him away when he clears out his desk, good riddance

papasmurf
31-03-2011, 09:26
Would I be right in thinking that all purchases made during niar were done whilst keeping the club in the black? ie, no murray cash, only supporters/prize money/TV Money?

And the money that we spend during the advocaat years was putting us into debt (to about 80m if you beleive reports). ie not his cash.

He then put about 50m into the club to keep us solvent.

Then over saw us getting back to 30m in debt and having to be sold and asset stripped to keep us alive?

steniebear
31-03-2011, 09:35
During his early years he had us all believing his vision and most bought into schemes like My Blue Heaven and having your name on your seat. Nobody thought any the wiser of it as we were watching a great team but it was our money that was used and not gifted by SDM to us. The club was on a sound footing and getting tickets especially for an away game was a nightmare. Every ground was a sell out.

Most Friday nights he had his face on the TV with him telling us how well we were doing and what he was going to do.

I think he lost interest when his master plan with Advocaat went tits up and he was never the same brash leader we had been used to for years.

BlueFlagFlyingHigh
31-03-2011, 09:37
To be printed on a flyer and handed out to the youngsters at the games, oh and some oldies too

Well done Adamski, ruffle of the hair for you my boy

http://imgur.com/YLCj6
Print off and hand to as many fellow supporters as you can. ;)

Sir Duncan Ferguson
31-03-2011, 09:38
Would I be right in thinking that all purchases made during niar were done whilst keeping the club in the black? ie, no murray cash, only supporters/prize money/TV Money?

And the money that we spend during the advocaat years was putting us into debt (to about 80m if you beleive reports). ie not his cash.

He then put about 50m into the club to keep us solvent.

Then over saw us getting back to 30m in debt and having to be sold and asset stripped to keep us alive?

We were in debt until ENIC's 40m investment in 1997 which put us miles into the black. And we made some decent money in player sales as well back then.

From a position like that to 72m in debt just 5 years later. You're talking at least a 100m turnaround.

Incredible.

bluebaz
31-03-2011, 09:54
I felt this may be an appropriate time to digest the position we were in when our last new owner rode into town.

You dustin down the soapbox this morning chief?

;)

Bearfaced
31-03-2011, 10:07
The fact is it was David Holmes who started the Souness Revolution and so many people forget it.

And that it was Holmes and Lawrence Marlborough, that arranged the 6mil LOAN , that Murray used to buy the Club.

Bluenozebob
31-03-2011, 10:34
John Macmillan on TV last night seemed to think for a second that Murray should be thanked for bringing Souness to Ibrox :roll:

And if you're looking in John, no I for one won't be looking back on Murray's tenure all misty eyed, or being grateful for (in your words) what he did for Rangers.

windsor11
31-03-2011, 11:09
Why can't we have a debate without resorting to an "us and them".
I remember going to games in early 1980s when you could pay at the gate.
85-86 season we played St Mirren at home in the league in Jan to a crowd of 17,500 and finished that season 5th, aye 5th. Imagine the riot we would have if that happened this season!

Holmes brought in Souness who then brought in Murray. That's how it worked. We needed a major change from where we had been. We were mid-table with no support. The English teams being banned from Europe worked for us, how else would we have got Butcher, Woods, Steven, Stevens etc?

Now it's fair to say Murray and Souness didn't do it all but at the time it seemed they were the best thing going. We still have guys on here wanting us to pay big money for players every year. How do we pay for them? By going further into debt? Times have changed and lessons learnt, I hope.

The money Sky put in to the EPL is too much for us to compete with, we need to look at other countries, like Holland (Eredivisie@ 10 Euros/month) and see how they do it. My hope is SPL TV is set up to keep Scottish football money in Scotland and away from Sky/ESPN or whoever.

Hume
31-03-2011, 11:47
not true only standing at ibrox when murray came were the enclosures

wayhay!! :d

TN8
31-03-2011, 11:54
Well played adamski, hats off.

F*ck off Murray (and John McMillan for that matter, for your pathetic pish on the telly last night while trying to speak like you've been to the same elocution class as Billy Davies)

Jan Fabel
31-03-2011, 12:14
Murray kickstarting the Ibrox Revolution is not only one of the great myths of our time, it does a tremendous disservice to Holmes, imho.

MvMillan was on SSN last night spouting the myth that Murray brought Souness to Ibrox.

I met David Holmes and his daughter (who was the club's PR when we still had PR) on several occasions when he was in charge at Ibrox. Always, very helpful and with the good of The Rangers and its fans central to his philosophy.

oranjeboy
31-03-2011, 12:33
Well played adamski, hats off.

F*ck off Murray (and John McMillan for that matter, for your pathetic pish on the telly last night while trying to speak like you've been to the same elocution class as Billy Davies)

hear hear mate

mcmillan MAJORLY pissed me off last night with that utter sh1te :mad::mad:

johnboy
31-03-2011, 12:41
You do know you have just confused the feck out of a hell of alot of people with those facts mate

Der Berliner
31-03-2011, 13:17
Quite a lot of anti-Murray bile on here, not least by the posters on the first few pages.

The simple fact remains that pre Murray and the appearance of Souness in the last months of Holmes' reign, Rangers FC had been also-rans ever since 1878, with gates at Ibrox averaging at 18k during the mid-80s. One can look at the reigns of the various chairmen of Rangers FC from any angle you like, on the whole, Murray's reign was one of the best Rangers has ever had in their illustrious history. Just take your time and write down the facts you can find in any good Rangers record book.

EDIT:

I give you a Murray account ... since they are the easiest trophies to find:

Scottish League Titles - 15
Scottish F.A. Cup wins - 9
Scottish League Cup wins - 12

UEFA Cup finalists (first time in 33 years) - 1

Yorkhill blue
31-03-2011, 13:48
Quite a lot of anti-Murray bile on here, not least by the posters on the first few pages.

The simple fact remains that pre Murray and the appearance of Souness in the last months of Holmes' reign, Rangers FC had been also-rans ever since 1878, with gates at Ibrox averaging at 18k during the mid-80s. One can look at the reigns of the various chairmen of Rangers FC from any angle you like, on the whole, Murray's reign was one of the best Rangers has ever had in their illustrious history. Just take your time and write down the facts you can find in any good Rangers record book.

EDIT:

I give you a Murray account ... since they are the easiest trophies to find:

Scottish League Titles - 15
Scottish F.A. Cup wins - 9
Scottish League Cup wins - 12

UEFA Cup finalists (first time in 33 years) - 1

Thirty six years and I saw that too, although I watched on television instead
of being physically in attendance.

broxi blue
31-03-2011, 13:50
A lot of people forget how not long before he took over at Ibrox Murray had tried very hard to buy Ayr Utd,the club he had supported all his life.Many of is supporters may say Muray is a Rangers fan,but for me he never has been and never wil be.

Correct, we were only his second choice after Ayr told him to GTF

Ravey
31-03-2011, 14:21
Quite a lot of anti-Murray bile on here, not least by the posters on the first few pages.

The simple fact remains that pre Murray and the appearance of Souness in the last months of Holmes' reign, Rangers FC had been also-rans ever since 1878


What?

:confused:

Bluenozebob
31-03-2011, 19:16
Quite a lot of anti-Murray bile on here, not least by the posters on the first few pages.

The simple fact remains that pre Murray and the appearance of Souness in the last months of Holmes' reign, Rangers FC had been also-rans ever since 1878, with gates at Ibrox averaging at 18k during the mid-80s. One can look at the reigns of the various chairmen of Rangers FC from any angle you like, on the whole, Murray's reign was one of the best Rangers has ever had in their illustrious history. Just take your time and write down the facts you can find in any good Rangers record book.

EDIT:

I give you a Murray account ... since they are the easiest trophies to find:

Scottish League Titles - 15
Scottish F.A. Cup wins - 9
Scottish League Cup wins - 12

UEFA Cup finalists (first time in 33 years) - 1

Let's also take into account the far far bigger picture that needs to be realised when assessing David Murray's time at Rangers.

Namely, Lawrence Marlborough kick started it with David Holmes. Murray came in at the time Rangers were THE club in Britain, due mainly to English teams being kicked out of Europe, hence we had been able to attract the Butchers, Woods, Roberts, Stevens et al.
If he leaves us in half the shape he inherited us, we'd be looking decent, but he won't. He's raped the club dry, and made decisions that benefit the Murray Group and not Rangers F.C (Azure catering, Albion Training Ground etc,etc). Don't forget, this is the guy who owns the club but has been anonymous for the last two odd years as the club rolls from one financial predicament to another.Oh and let's not forget that under his custodianship there is a tangled web of accounts under various Murray companies, and god knows what is behind the matter with HMRC.

If David Murray had been a quarter of the businessman and visionary some on here think he is, he would have seen the potential of Rangers in the late 80's and 90's, and been at the table with the English Clubs when the deals for TV were being negotiated. The drawing power and calibre of player at Rangers back then was a mouth watering prospect for what was a brand new untried concept in the TV world.

Murray is a charlatan, no more, and I for one will be glad when he's gone.

berkshiretrueblue
31-03-2011, 19:34
Adamski, a wonderful post but it will not catch on with some!

biodoc
31-03-2011, 23:19
To be fair you cannot compare the state we were in when Murray took over to now. Things have changed massively ie TV money and player wages. We were in debt at the start of the Murray era due to David Holmes making us a more attractive proposition to buy but, this was a planned debt with a club in trading profit that took no sh_t from the press. Murray ran us well during 9 in a row making sure we were operating on a break even even if things went tits up in Europe. There were some concerns during this time though with all the outsoucing to Murray companies and sale to Murray companies of Rangers property. Then Murray destroyed everything with the Advocaat era. The players and football was great but the financial black hole it plunged us into was unmissabe to anyone who would have seen our wage bill and transfer spending in relation to our income. Even if the Whyte takeover goes ahead I still expect it to take us another 5 years to recover from the effect of one man's reckless gamble which had no chance of breaking even.

rangerfromouterspace
31-03-2011, 23:36
Let's also take into account the far far bigger picture that needs to be realised when assessing David Murray's time at Rangers.

Namely, Lawrence Marlborough kick started it with David Holmes. Murray came in at the time Rangers were THE club in Britain, due mainly to English teams being kicked out of Europe, hence we had been able to attract the Butchers, Woods, Roberts, Stevens et al.
If he leaves us in half the shape he inherited us, we'd be looking decent, but he won't. He's raped the club dry, and made decisions that benefit the Murray Group and not Rangers F.C (Azure catering, Albion Training Ground etc,etc). Don't forget, this is the guy who owns the club but has been anonymous for the last two odd years as the club rolls from one financial predicament to another.Oh and let's not forget that under his custodianship there is a tangled web of accounts under various Murray companies, and god knows what is behind the matter with HMRC.

If David Murray had been a quarter of the businessman and visionary some on here think he is, he would have seen the potential of Rangers in the late 80's and 90's, and been at the table with the English Clubs when the deals for TV were being negotiated. The drawing power and calibre of player at Rangers back then was a mouth watering prospect for what was a brand new untried concept in the TV world.

Murray is a charlatan, no more, and I for one will be glad when he's gone.

Nail on head

omar
01-04-2011, 01:49
Let's also take into account the far far bigger picture that needs to be realised when assessing David Murray's time at Rangers.

Namely, Lawrence Marlborough kick started it with David Holmes. Murray came in at the time Rangers were THE club in Britain, due mainly to English teams being kicked out of Europe, hence we had been able to attract the Butchers, Woods, Roberts, Stevens et al.
If he leaves us in half the shape he inherited us, we'd be looking decent, but he won't. He's raped the club dry, and made decisions that benefit the Murray Group and not Rangers F.C (Azure catering, Albion Training Ground etc,etc). Don't forget, this is the guy who owns the club but has been anonymous for the last two odd years as the club rolls from one financial predicament to another.Oh and let's not forget that under his custodianship there is a tangled web of accounts under various Murray companies, and god knows what is behind the matter with HMRC.

If David Murray had been a quarter of the businessman and visionary some on here think he is, he would have seen the potential of Rangers in the late 80's and 90's, and been at the table with the English Clubs when the deals for TV were being negotiated. The drawing power and calibre of player at Rangers back then was a mouth watering prospect for what was a brand new untried concept in the TV world.

Murray is a charlatan, no more, and I for one will be glad when he's gone.

A perfect summation. The more galling thing about this is that loans on the Albion, etc now appear to be the stumbling blocks to the club being taken over.

The Natural
01-04-2011, 03:00
I was surprised while reading a lot of that. Good read.

bkkbear
01-04-2011, 08:39
....
I remember going to games in early 1980s when you could pay at the gate.
85-86 season we played St Mirren at home in the league in Jan to a crowd of 17,500 and finished that season 5th, aye 5th. Imagine the riot we would have if that happened this season!....

surprised you didnt mention the mythical 2000 crowd. :angel:


But remember folks, even the year before souness we still had the HIGHEST average league attendence which given our playing standard and they had a higher capcity stadium means one thing GIRUY Timmy!

adamski
27-04-2011, 16:23
You dustin down the soapbox this morning chief?

;)

Never off it bud ;)

calvinist
27-04-2011, 17:09
''You are only limited by your own ambition''

David Holmes May 1987

whos_the_dado
27-04-2011, 17:13
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the 85/86 Winners and 88/89 finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......


But he built Ibrox with his bare hands and brought in Souness and Butcher to hodcarry for him. :roll:

bluestreak
27-04-2011, 17:15
But he built Ibrox with his bare hands and brought in Souness and Butcher to hodcarry for him. :roll:
Why bring this sh*t up now you are antagonising,young support who dont remember the facts , I may add I am not one of them at a spritely 74

youngsy
27-04-2011, 17:17
Great post mate.

Should clear a few things up for those who think other wise.


You missed out that we had a place for a pre-match pint in the Edmiston Club.

When Murray closed the Edmiston he curtailed a large part of my social life,Cup Final nights,etc. For that reason alone he should have been hunted.

Calvers72
27-04-2011, 17:18
Things were so bad the team's pre-match meal was gravel and water. FACT!

scooby
27-04-2011, 18:32
If Murray had left four or five years ago, he would probably have had a fair amount of fans wishing him well.

He did not leave, and with each passing day his tenure has become more and more unpalatable with the rank and file of the support.

Having said that, he probably could not get a buyer as the club was in such bad shape, due to his mismanagement.

britain
28-04-2011, 16:28
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the 85/86 Winners and 88/89 finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......


A very good original post.

Oatlands
28-04-2011, 16:35
Murray is very good at paying off "media" people to promote his own PR. The man singlehandedly has brought Rangers to financial ruin yet he is still fawned over by some. A con artist who just about ruined us as well as a couple of banks. Good ridance to him.

adamski
05-05-2011, 15:13
Murray is very good at paying off "media" people to promote his own PR. The man singlehandedly has brought Rangers to financial ruin yet he is still fawned over by some. A con artist who just about ruined us as well as a couple of banks. Good riddance to him.

I now wonder just exactly now the shackles are about to be taken off how those who can actually think in the media will paint him.

I suspect I already know that answer.

adamski
05-05-2011, 20:21
Hindsight suggests that on balance we should probably have avoided him like the plague, but I can't remember there being any other viable alternatives to him at the time.

I still think he was the right person at the right time.

Sadly, after his first decade, he was very much the wrong person at the wrong time.

I wonder how things would have panned out if he'd appointed a proven chief executive in football at that point (who he'd actually listen to), rather than Bob Bannan (who was out the door as quite as Montgomerie).

paddingtonbear
05-05-2011, 20:47
Because Malborough wanted to concentrate on his golf course projects in Nevada and needed capital.

I dont believe thats the case. My understanding was there was a family issue and cash had to be raised to be split around the siblings. Cant remember if it was divorce or death.

blue4life
05-05-2011, 20:55
Can I add that Rangers broke the Scottish transfer record THREE times in the space of 15 months with the signings of Chris Woods (600,000), Terry Butcher(750,000) and Richard Gough(1,500,000) long before Murray showed up ?

Throw in other big money signings before Minty showed up

Gary Stevens - 1,000,000
Mark Walters - 500,000
Ian Ferguson - 850,000
Kevin Drinkell - 500,000
Graham Roberts - 450,000

they would be big fees for us now>:)

Yorkhill blue
05-05-2011, 21:08
I dont believe thats the case. My understanding was there was a family issue and cash had to be raised to be split around the siblings. Cant remember if it was divorce or death.



He had inherited his shares from his grandfather (96,590) this did not give him a
majority shareholding and in 1983 he resigned as a director to concentrate on
his Nevada based ventures whilst retaining his shareholding.

Growing increasingly concerned by the growing strain on the Lawrence group
incurred by Rangers due to several years of failure in the football sense he
stepped back in and in 1985 he purchased Jack Gillespie's shareholding of
(73,604) and gained control of the club at a cost of 920,000 also inheriting
liabilities of 2.8 million. This gave him the majority shareholding of the club
(65.98%).

He immediately installed David Holmes as his nominee on the board to turn the
club around as "he saw fit" and Holmes introduced the Souness revolution.

Three years later in November 1988 Malborough sold the club to David Murray
for 6 million and Murray inherited debt liabilities of 8 million. Souness
became a director and gained 10% of the club.

During the period between 1983-1988 and thereafter Malborough continued to
concentrate on his business ventures in North America, mainly golf courses in
Nevada.

adamski
18-01-2012, 15:20
they would be big fees for us now>:)

Mad thing is, other clubs were spending hundreds of thousands on player too - the contract situation meant that almost everyone had a resale value.

Sir Duncan Ferguson
18-01-2012, 15:24
Mad thing is, other clubs were spending hundreds of thousands on player too - the contract situation meant that almost everyone had a resale value.

Aberdeen spent the guts of 1.5m on Hans Gillhaus, Snelders and Nicholas in the space of 18 months...

chilebear
18-01-2012, 15:25
Can I add that Rangers broke the Scottish transfer record THREE times in the space of 15 months with the signings of Chris Woods (600,000), Terry Butcher(750,000) and Richard Gough(1,500,000) long before Murray showed up ?

Throw in other big money signings before Minty showed up

Gary Stevens - 1,000,000
Mark Walters - 500,000
Ian Ferguson - 850,000
Kevin Drinkell - 500,000
Graham Roberts - 450,000

Souness didnt spend more than 2million on a player.

adamski
18-01-2012, 15:29
Aberdeen spent the guts of 1.5m on Hans Gillhaus, Snelders and Nicholas in the space of 18 months...

Imagine now, Aberdeen buying Arsenal's centre forward, PSV's centre forward, and FC Twente's goalkeeper? :D:eek:

Tam Forsyth 1973
18-01-2012, 15:35
Souness didnt spend more than 2million on a player.

Yes but you could buy England internationals for less than 2m in those days.

berkshiretrueblue
18-01-2012, 15:50
Is John Lawrence (Glasgow) Limited still in existence. Lawrence Marlborough was still a director of this Company after he moved 'permanently' to Nevada.

Also, do we know anything about how his businesses are doing in teh US.

Sir Duncan Ferguson
18-01-2012, 15:54
Souness didnt spend more than 2million on a player.

He didn't spend more than 1.5m on a player.

Put in context, Liverpool were buying Beardsley for 1.9m and Rush for 2.8m, Everton spent 2.2m on Tony Cottee, Man Utd were buying Hughes for 1.8m, Pallister for 2.3m, Ince for 1.8m, Webb for 1.5m and Tottenham spent 2m each on Gazza and Lineker.

We were spending big, but the English were still outspending us.

ibou
18-01-2012, 16:10
1. 8 Scottish players in your list.
2. Let's forget Murray, he has divided our support enough.
3. Souness left us for his "number one" club. Yet some adore him.
4. Would we have attracted those players if they could play in Europe for English teams? Genuine question.
5. Look forward and stop the pointless remonstrations.

manchester man
18-01-2012, 16:25
This is common knowledge to every supporter I know and have met, so not sure whom this is aimed at.

bluenose al
18-01-2012, 18:08
This is common knowledge to every supporter I know and have met, so not sure whom this is aimed at.

the scottish press for a start.

isawthat
18-01-2012, 20:09
Graeme Souness was brought to Ibrox in April 1986, by Chief Executive (later Chairman) David Holmes.

The Club then set about an aggressive rebuilding policy, with Colin West, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods, Jimmy Nicholl, Graham Roberts all being added to the playing pool in 1986, that already contained Davie Cooper, Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Derek Ferguson, Robert Fleck amongst others.

We won the League Championship in May 1987, the first since 1978. we had earlier won the League Cup in October 1986.

Ibrox was a 44,500 sell out every week by 1987.

In 1987/88, we failed to win the Championship, principally due to a leg break to Terry Butcher, and the failure to adequately replace the departed Robert Fleck's/injured Ally McCoist's goals. We retained the League Cup.

We signed amongst others Richard Gough, Ray Wilkins, Mark Walters, John Brown and Ian Ferguson.

We reached the Quarter Finals of the European Cup, disposing of the formidable Dynamo Kiev and Polish Champions Gornik Zabrze before being beaten on aggregate by Steaua Bucharest, despite an impressive 2-1 win over the 85/86 Winners and 88/89 finalists.

Prior to the beginning of season 1988/89, we signed Gary Stevens from Everton and Kevin Drinkell from Norwich City.

At the beginning of our first league Championship campaign of the Nine in a row run, we could field a side that regularly was made up of the following:-

Chris Woods, Richard Gough, Terry Butcher, Ray Wilkins, John Brown, Stuart Munro, Ally McCoist, Davie Cooper, Ian Ferguson, Derek Ferguson, Ian Durrant, Mark Walters, Kevin Drinkell.


When David Murray took over the running of The Rangers Football Club on Friday 25th November 1988, we were sitting top of the Premier League, and had one month previously won the League Cup for the third successive year.



And that's just on the park matters......

Shocking post. This is how rumours are started, and our younger fans will believe what you have said here. Some fans will do anything to discredit Sir David Murray:roll:

TrueBlue1979
18-01-2012, 20:24
The late 80s was a truly exciting period for Gers fans. Easily Britain's number one club at the time. Murray was given the perfect foundation to build for the longer term and blew it.

AnglianBear
18-01-2012, 20:54
To be fair, someone could just as easily stick a post up detailing our 92 Champions League team or our 9 in a row season, the signings of Gazza & Laudrup - players that would be 10m plus nowadays. That all happened during the Murray era.

bluepath
18-01-2012, 21:12
It is shocking at how many on FF know so little about our club.
After we won the treble in 78 we had 9 years in the wilderness. While most of our money went on the stadium rebuild, we still spent well on guys like Bett, Prytz and Paterson. But around 86 Lawrence Malborough knew he needed a succesful club to sell to finance his investments in the US. So he put David Holmes in place - he brought Souness and we won the league and LC. But the in initial success was built on only a few players. Butcher, Woods added to Coop, Coisty and Durrant.The loss of Butch in 87/88 showed how short of players we were and even with the introduction of Gough we needed investment.

LM would not invest any more money, he needed to sell the club and in came Murray.

Without Murray there would have been no 9 in a row and possibly not the stadium we currently have. I find it a shame that despite what Murray achieved for us, that his legacy will be the chaos he has left.

But regadless, I'd have SDM anyday ahead of CW. Murray may have been wreckless with our club, but at least his original intentions were to our benefit.

ao
18-01-2012, 21:17
Well said Adamski. David Holmes tends to be the forgotten man by some people. Tell you what, he fought our corner. Like Murray he wasn't born a Bear (he was a Falkirk man) but unlike Murray he took no shit from the press. There was a lengthy list of journalists not welcome at Ibrox in his time.

It really gets on my goat when people who should know better insist Murray took Souness to Ibrox, signed Butcher and Woods etc and built the stadium :mad:

macdonsj
18-01-2012, 21:21
It is shocking at how many on FF know so little about our club.
After we won the treble in 78 we had 9 years in the wilderness. While most of our money went on the stadium rebuild, we still spent well on guys like Bett, Prytz and Paterson. But around 86 Lawrence Malborough knew he needed a succesful club to sell to finance his investments in the US. So he put David Holmes in place - he brought Souness and we won the league and LC. But the in initial success was built on only a few players. Butcher, Woods added to Coop, Coisty and Durrant.The loss of Butch in 87/88 showed how short of players we were and even with the introduction of Gough we needed investment.

LM would not invest any more money, he needed to sell the club and in came Murray.

Without Murray there would have been no 9 in a row and possibly not the stadium we currently have. I find it a shame that despite what Murray achieved for us, that his legacy will be the chaos he has left.

But regadless, I'd have SDM anyday ahead of CW. Murray may have been wreckless with our club, but at least his original intentions were to our benefit.

No 9inaRow? - who's to say it wouldn't have happened, we were by far the better team back then.
We were massively outspending Celtic, a yahoo side that struggled to finish second.
It was akin to the current Man City team having Wigan as their perrenial challengers
He played fantasy chairman and it came to roost

Stadium? - It was already the best in Scotland by a mile and the money spent putting in a few seats was excessive.
His stadium legacy was a once proud stadium sitting looking tatty and worn

His chaos legacy is embedded as it was so disgusting and still could be ultimately disasterous
This wasn't a PLG/John Greig "wrong managerial appointment" which means a ripping apart of the team
This was a systematic economic gamble with OUR club to further his own ego.
He put us in potentially catastrophic debt TWICE, first time from a position of strength and the second after promising that it wouldn't happen again
He disappeared when the first debt came too much for his fragile state of mind to cope with and once others had taken the tough decisions and soldiered on, he strode back in as if he was the saviour

as for SDM over CW - Whyte has a lot to prove, most of his work will be post Tax decision (a Tax issue created by SDMs mismanagement)
but lets remember the fact - if we go into admin or worse still collapse completely DAVID MURRAY is the chief person responsible for it

bluepath
18-01-2012, 21:23
Well said Adamski. David Holmes tends to be the forgotten man by some people. Tell you what, he fought our corner. Like Murray he wasn't born a Bear (he was a Falkirk man) but unlike Murray he took no shit from the press. There was a lengthy list of journalists not welcome at Ibrox in his time.

It really gets on my goat when people who should know better insist Murray took Souness to Ibrox, signed Butcher and Woods etc and built the stadium :mad:

The drive to build Ibrox into the safest stadium in europe was that of Willie Waddell. Many will tell of all he did wrong too, but every time I drive to Ibrox I hear his words in my ears. Ibrox is a legacy for previous generations and for those who died in 71 and during the 1st disaster.

As for David Holmes, I will never forget his interview after we won at Pittodrie and him saying how happy he was that he needed to suck a lemon to keep the smile off his face.

cooper145
18-01-2012, 21:28
Souness didnt spend more than 2million on a player.

IIRC he also did well on the selling front. Cant remember any specifics, but my gut tells me he didn't (NET) spend that much. Somebody can provide the FACTS.


WATP

ao
18-01-2012, 21:32
The drive to build Ibrox into the safest stadium in europe was that of Willie Waddell. Many will tell of all he did wrong too, but every time I drive to Ibrox I hear his words in my ears. Ibrox is a legacy for previous generations and for those who died in 71 and during the 1st disaster.

As for David Holmes, I will never forget his interview after we won at Pittodrie and him saying how happy he was that he needed to suck a lemon to keep the smile off his face.

Of course. Waddell was the man who was the driving force not only to re-build the stadium - he was the only one in authority at Ibrox who was willing to put his head above the parapet when others on the board were hiding, terrified they were going to be held responsible for the disaster. We should never forget his contribution. My post was directed to those (and they are too many in number) who believe that Ibrox was rebuilt by Murray.

bluepath
18-01-2012, 21:35
No 9inaRow? - who's to say it wouldn't have happened, we were by far the better team back then.
We were massively outspending Celtic, a yahoo side that struggled to finish second.
It was akin to the current Man City team having Wigan as their perrenial challengers
He played fantasy chairman and it came to roost

Stadium? - It was already the best in Scotland by a mile and the money spent putting in a few seats was excessive.
His stadium legacy was a once proud stadium sitting looking tatty and worn

His chaos legacy is embedded as it was so disgusting and still could be ultimately disasterous
This wasn't a PLG/John Greig "wrong managerial appointment" which means a ripping apart of the team
This was a systematic economic gamble with OUR club to further his own ego.
He put us in potentially catastrophic debt TWICE, first time from a position of strength and the second after promising that it wouldn't happen again
He disappeared when the first debt came too much for his fragile state of mind to cope with and once others had taken the tough decisions and soldiered on, he strode back in as if he was the saviour

as for SDM over CW - Whyte has a lot to prove, most of his work will be post Tax decision (a Tax issue created by SDMs mismanagement)
but lets remember the fact - if we go into admin or worse still collapse completely DAVID MURRAY is the chief person responsible for it

I disagree with how you recall us pre 9 in a row. In 87/88 we were murder, our team was all over the place, and we let them run amok in their centenary year. We were lucky that they had brought in Billy McBungle as that was as crucial as anything we did.

I wont forget what Murray brought me as a Rangers supporter.
Nor will I forget what he left us with.

But i still beleive his original motivations was to maintain a strong Rangers but it all went pear shaped through his own mistakes and ego aligned to an unforseen global recession.

We all bought into the dream, for a year or so, but most of us realised early that dreams cost and we didnt have any funding.

But what SDM did has nothing to do with CW. CW has failed to invest and seems determined to take us into Insolvency. His investment has been minimal so far, even if we lost the tax case in real terms allowing for CT relief the cost would be only 30m which could be funded and mortgaged with security. CW is blinding many with declarations of only 1 option. I dont beleive if SDM was still here, warts and all, we would go into administration. Even if it was just to save his ego, he would go for plan b. CW only has one desire and it is at our cost.

ao
18-01-2012, 21:36
IIRC he also did well on the selling front. Cant remember any specifics, but my gut tells me he didn't (NET) spend that much. Somebody can provide the FACTS.


WATP

The only major signing I can remember us losing money on was Mel Sterland. I think he cost 800k but was sold for 650k or something like that.

bluepath
18-01-2012, 21:38
Of course. Waddell was the man who was the driving force not only to re-build the stadium - he was the only one in authority at Ibrox who was willing to put his head above the parapet when others on the board were hiding, terrified they were going to be held responsible for the disaster. We should never forget his contribution. My post was directed to those (and they are too many in number) who believe that Ibrox was rebuilt by Murray.

Murray did bring about the club deck - but every game at Ibrox I cringe when I see how many years without a lick of paint or even a good clean.

If Mr Struth was alive he'd have the players out with sponges and paint brushes!

derodger
18-01-2012, 22:22
But i still beleive his original motivations was to maintain a strong Rangers but it all went pear shaped through his own mistakes and ego aligned to an unforseen global recession.



But what SDM did has nothing to do with CW. CW has failed to invest and seems determined to take us into Insolvency. His investment has been minimal so far, even if we lost the tax case in real terms allowing for CT relief the cost would be only 30m which could be funded and mortgaged with security. CW is blinding many with declarations of only 1 option. I dont beleive if SDM was still here, warts and all, we would go into administration. Even if it was just to save his ego, he would go for plan b. CW only has one desire and it is at our cost.

We were in financial deep sh*t well before the current financial recession thanks to SDM not because of it.

We don't know about CW plans yet. There might be more problems from the previous regime to sort before he invests. There might be a wait and see approach to the taxcase before investing. There might be as you feel no investment to come.
If though he does take us down the administration route, do you honestly believe that he would have done so if it were not for the financial mess left from the previous regime?
SDM did do a lot for the club at first but the price has been a bit excessive with the major threat to the future well being of the club. For that the bad outways the good imho.

sam123
18-01-2012, 22:47
hate these type of posts where the op only deals in facts give us more rumours

adamski
12-06-2012, 14:13
After it all, we were left with less than we started with, with a worse crook in charge, who finished what the club had become.

Let it never be written any other way - Murray is ultimately responsible for where we are today. He build the pyre, he lit the fire, and then sold us to Whyte to pour petrol over the entire lot.