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brandon5160
17-02-2017, 09:09
whats the law here?

I have taken the following from the Scottish government website

The controls over the carriage and consumption of alcohol, first introduced in 1980, are set out in Part II of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995 ( www.opsi.gov.uk). Section 18 of the 1995 Act empowers the Scottish Ministers to designate sporting events and grounds that are subject to alcohol controls.
The current designations state that FIFA, UEFA and Scottish association professional football matches played at the grounds of clubs in the Scottish Premier League, Scottish Football League, Highland League and at Murrayfield will be subject to alcohol controls.
The controls do not apply to a non-designated event at a designated ground. Events such as concerts, American football, rugby league matches, rugby union club matches are not and never have been designated events.
In June 2007 the Scottish Government de-designated Murrayfield Stadium and other stadia in respect of international men's rugby matches.
The existing controls mean that it is an offence to:
Be in possession of alcohol or a controlled container in a designated ground for designated events or attempt to take alcohol in to a designated ground for a designated event;
Attempt to enter while drunk, or be drunk in, a designated ground for a designated event;
Carry or consume alcohol on a coach or train specifically hired for the carrying for supporters to a designated event at a designated ground.
drink in corporate areas overlooking the field of play* unless the blinds are closed or curtains drawn (but does allow, subject to a licence being granted, drinking in hospitality areas in the grounds of the stadium and in the stadium car parks).
* During the relevant period of a designated event which is the period commencing two hours before the start and ending one hour after the end of a designated sporting event.

reading this it would be my understanding that if we are travelling in minibus which is owned by us and not being hired then we are allowed to consume alcohol.

I also note the bit about 2 hours before and 1 hour after, but it would appear this only applies to hospitality inside the ground.

anyone shed some light on this?

stoddy
17-02-2017, 09:12
Not allowed - that's it pure and simple

rangeral
17-02-2017, 09:13
Under current simple not allowed

You are right about the 2 hour before and 1 hour after that is for hospitality inside the ground

Sideys31
17-02-2017, 09:18
whats the law here?

I have taken the following from the Scottish government website

The controls over the carriage and consumption of alcohol, first introduced in 1980, are set out in Part II of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995 ( www.opsi.gov.uk). Section 18 of the 1995 Act empowers the Scottish Ministers to designate sporting events and grounds that are subject to alcohol controls.
The current designations state that FIFA, UEFA and Scottish association professional football matches played at the grounds of clubs in the Scottish Premier League, Scottish Football League, Highland League and at Murrayfield will be subject to alcohol controls.
The controls do not apply to a non-designated event at a designated ground. Events such as concerts, American football, rugby league matches, rugby union club matches are not and never have been designated events.
In June 2007 the Scottish Government de-designated Murrayfield Stadium and other stadia in respect of international men's rugby matches.
The existing controls mean that it is an offence to:
Be in possession of alcohol or a controlled container in a designated ground for designated events or attempt to take alcohol in to a designated ground for a designated event;
Attempt to enter while drunk, or be drunk in, a designated ground for a designated event;
Carry or consume alcohol on a coach or train specifically hired for the carrying for supporters to a designated event at a designated ground.
drink in corporate areas overlooking the field of play* unless the blinds are closed or curtains drawn (but does allow, subject to a licence being granted, drinking in hospitality areas in the grounds of the stadium and in the stadium car parks).
* During the relevant period of a designated event which is the period commencing two hours before the start and ending one hour after the end of a designated sporting event.

reading this it would be my understanding that if we are travelling in minibus which is owned by us and not being hired then we are allowed to consume alcohol.

I also note the bit about 2 hours before and 1 hour after, but it would appear this only applies to hospitality inside the ground.

anyone shed some light on this?

You are not allowed to drink alcohol on a bus on the way to any sporting event in Scotland.

Sir_Walter1872
17-02-2017, 09:20
Do some busses still turn a blind eye to it? Who is responsible if caught breaking the law? The individual supporter, the supporters club or the bus company? Is it just supporters busses that you can't drink on it all busses?

Deek1873
17-02-2017, 09:23
Do some busses still turn a blind eye to it? Who is responsible if caught breaking the law? The individual supporter, the supporters club or the bus company? Is it just supporters busses that you can't drink on it all busses?

The individual could be done as well as the person who hired the coach and the coach operator and driver.

Ubik
17-02-2017, 09:27
You are not allowed to drink alcohol on a bus on the way to any sporting event in Scotland.

even the rugby? so you cant drink on a bus to get there but an drink as much as you want inside the ground? seems like a typical scottish law

Jack Sparrow
17-02-2017, 09:30
Carry or consume alcohol on a coach or train specifically hired for the carrying for supporters to a designated event at a designated ground.

reading this it would be my understanding that if we are travelling in minibus which is owned by us and not being hired then we are allowed to consume alcohol.


anyone shed some light on this?

The wording on the SG website is loose. Here is the actual legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/39/section/19

Sections 19(3) and 19(4) cover vehicles other than hired PSVs (buses)


(3)This subsection applies to a motor vehicle which is not a public service vehicle but which is adapted to carry more than 8 passengers and is being operated for the principal purpose of conveying two or more passengers for the whole or part of a journey to or from a designated sporting event.

(4)Any person in possession of alcohol on a vehicle to which subsection (3) above applies shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a period not exceeding 60 days or a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale or both.

So as stoddy said in post #2 - not allowed, pure and simple.

Jack Sparrow
17-02-2017, 09:34
You are not allowed to drink alcohol on a bus on the way to any sporting event in Scotland.

*designated sporting events.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/en/ssi/2014/5/made


SCHEDULE 2
CLASSES OF SPORTING EVENTS

PART I

1. Association football matches in the Scottish Professional Football League.

2. Association football matches in the Scottish Lowland Football League.

3. Association football matches in the Scottish Highland Football League.

4. Association football matches in the competition for—

(a)the Scottish Football Association Challenge Cup;

(b)the Scottish League Cup;

(c)the Scottish League Challenge Cup;

(d)the Scottish Lowland Football League Cup;

(e)the Scottish Highland Football League Cup;

(f)the UEFA Champions League;

(g)the UEFA Europa League; or

(h)the UEFA Super Cup.

5. International association football matches in Scotland.

6. Association football matches (other than those specified in paragraphs 1 to 5 above) which come within the jurisdiction of the Scottish Football Association Limited.

PART II

Association football matches at a sports ground outside Great Britain in which one of the participating teams represents—

(a)the Scottish Football Association Limited;

(b)a club which is a member of the Scottish Professional Football League;

(c)a club which is a member of the Scottish Lowland Football League; or

(d)a club which is a member of the Scottish Highland Football League.

Cyberniv
17-02-2017, 09:35
You are not allowed to drink alcohol on a bus on the way to any sporting event in Scotland.

Unless the law has changed that's not right. "Designated Sporting Venue or Event" used to be the buzz phrase.

For example it is not an offence for say, bowlers on the way to or from a match to have drink on the bus.

Source, former police match commander and bowler extrodinaire who has sorted out a few bus drivers on this.

Some bus companies deliberately misuse the law to stop drinking on their buses because of the mess. Check before hand and keeping the bus tidy, will usually keep them happy.

TPB90
17-02-2017, 10:31
So is it legal to drink on a bus if you're going to a concert? A bus full of p*ssed up women going to see Take That are more likely to cause bother than a bus of drunk football fans :D

brandon5160
17-02-2017, 10:34
so its ok in a car but not in a vehicle that can carry more than 8 people?

tkmcg
17-02-2017, 10:56
Mid 80s we ran a single decker and a transit van to the cesspit no drink on the bus according to the law but after a bit of discussion us in the van stopped at the first offy.

DalryBear
17-02-2017, 10:58
Do some busses still turn a blind eye to it? Who is responsible if caught breaking the law? The individual supporter, the supporters club or the bus company? Is it just supporters busses that you can't drink on it all busses?

Defo not allowed. Bus driver and bus convener are liable.

super_ally_the2nd
17-02-2017, 10:58
You are not allowed to drink alcohol on a bus on the way to any sporting event in Scotland.

This, but only if it's the football really..

bobbydazzler
17-02-2017, 11:07
*designated sporting events.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/en/ssi/2014/5/made

So you could get done on a bus on the way to watch Cowdenbeath or Formantaine United, but not if you're going to watch your team in the juniors, many of which are better attended?

I can see a lot of bears claiming they're on their way to watch Benburb if they ever get stopped. :D

SemperParatus
17-02-2017, 11:13
I get very thirsty on these buses so always have several bottles of 7Up handy.

gourockblue50
17-02-2017, 12:13
The individual could be done as well as the person who hired the coach and the coach operator and driver.

BUT, that is not what the OP is asking. He is not hiring a bus. They have their own.

By saying it's not allowed doesn't cover the law. There are always loopholes.

The wording is dubious as far as I can see. Even the part about the train being hired seems to be ambiguous to me. Who actually hires a train to go to the football.

Where;s ironside when you need him. (Judge Rindar for the youngsters).

bigy
17-02-2017, 12:19
From reading that though, the supporters club could run a day out to a local bowling club, near to a football ground, and provided the hire of the bus is to the bowling club and not the stadium you can drink as much as you like?

Deek1873
17-02-2017, 12:21
BUT, that is not what the OP is asking. He is not hiring a bus. They have their own.

By saying it's not allowed doesn't cover the law. There are always loopholes.

The wording is dubious as far as I can see. Even the part about the train being hired seems to be ambiguous to me. Who actually hires a train to go to the football.

Where;s ironside when you need him. (Judge Rindar for the youngsters).

If someone wanted to try a loophole that they owned the coach then it would need to be the operator licence holder who was driving it then. If it was just a coach driver behind the wheel it would be very hard to prove it wasnt hired in some way.

Jprfc
17-02-2017, 12:30
Do some busses still turn a blind eye to it? Who is responsible if caught breaking the law? The individual supporter, the supporters club or the bus company? Is it just supporters busses that you can't drink on it all busses?

Our bus turns a blind eye to it,we've only been pulled over twice in the last 10 years...once against man u in the champions league and once against the taigs at ibrox...on both occasions the police took great pleasure in emptying the bus.

Elvis Cole
17-02-2017, 12:30
Id always thought you could not drink on the train to Ayr races.

onegill
17-02-2017, 12:41
Our bus turns a blind eye to it,we've only been pulled over twice in the last 10 years...once against man u in the champions league and once against the taigs at ibrox...on both occasions the police took great pleasure in emptying the bus.

Maybe not a good idea to post that,lurkers about

hunter1rfc
17-02-2017, 13:00
the jolly craicsters of the tartan army don't get the same treatment when travelling down as our buses that go up north why is that?

adamski
17-02-2017, 13:02
So is it legal to drink on a bus if you're going to a concert? A bus full of p*ssed up women going to see Take That are more likely to cause bother than a bus of drunk football fans :D

And they do, regularly.

GaryBolan
17-02-2017, 13:03
When TITP was on you'd see bus after bus pass you full of people sitting with a can, they'd even have pictures in the paper of people doing it.

Police don't seem to mind it unless it's football fans.

Steven D
17-02-2017, 13:07
I understand some busses being a bit more open minded about it, Ive took a bevvy on the bus myself many a time but more recently Ive started to have a bit more respect for the risk the guys take and what their putting at stake.

Plus, if you cant go an hour along the road without a drink then its probably more a problem for you than it is for the bus :D

barrymoped
17-02-2017, 13:14
When TITP was on you'd see bus after bus pass you full of people sitting with a can, they'd even have pictures in the paper of people doing it.

Police don't seem to mind it unless it's football fans.

I think it's to a sporting event though. For some reason I think the train is ok.

Steven D
17-02-2017, 13:22
I think it's to a sporting event though. For some reason I think the train is ok.

Not two hours before an event IIRC.

Ape and Essence
17-02-2017, 13:23
Can anyone fill me in on the laws regarding ching on a supporters bus?

Steven D
17-02-2017, 13:26
Can anyone fill me in on the laws regarding ching on a supporters bus?

Bring enough for us aw or its forbidden

brandon5160
17-02-2017, 13:35
going by the 2n set of legislation that was posted it would be illegal even though we own the bus and it is not under hire.

the other issue is that this law is discriminating against football fans(especially THE RANGERS and that other mob) as our buses would be far more likely to be pulled than a Falkirk or brechin bus. is it not time that someone challenged the actual law? whats the difference between 50 women hiring a bus and going to Edinburgh for the day to go and see a show at the playhouse and 50 guys hiring a bus to go to the football? the answer is nothing, both are hiring a bus to take them to a place where they are paying money to be entertained. according to the law though, only one bus is allowed to have alcohol on board and I know what sort of state most of that bus will end up in.

rangeral
17-02-2017, 13:37
I think it's to a sporting event though. For some reason I think the train is ok.

The same law covers trains but it not really enforced as much now

Up to Scotrail, Virgin East Coast and BTP to decide and enforce it

rangeral
17-02-2017, 13:46
going by the 2n set of legislation that was posted it would be illegal even though we own the bus and it is not under hire.

the other issue is that this law is discriminating against football fans(especially THE RANGERS and that other mob) as our buses would be far more likely to be pulled than a Falkirk or brechin bus. is it not time that someone challenged the actual law? whats the difference between 50 women hiring a bus and going to Edinburgh for the day to go and see a show at the playhouse and 50 guys hiring a bus to go to the football? the answer is nothing, both are hiring a bus to take them to a place where they are paying money to be entertained. according to the law though, only one bus is allowed to have alcohol on board and I know what sort of state most of that bus will end up in.

You have point about discriminating against football fans

This law was brought in 1981 after the aftermath of the 1980 Scottish Cup Final and has since been altered as time as went on yet we are still subject to it

boldvale
17-02-2017, 13:53
I order our bus. If caught the driver and the person hiring the coach get done. Buses do not allow drink aboard. Close the thread, it is only asking for trouble.

samsung1872
17-02-2017, 17:09
With the high standard of coaches and the expense involved I would think most companies are pleased to enforce the no alcohol law.

Gers_boy_john
17-02-2017, 17:34
The Thornliebank True Blues got into some bother with police after drink was on the bus coming back from winning the league at Tannidice in 2009, I think there was a couple of fines dished out.

hars69
17-02-2017, 17:46
I order our bus. If caught the driver and the person hiring the coach get done. Buses do not allow drink aboard. Close the thread, it is only asking for trouble.

This with bells on.

johnny1872
17-02-2017, 18:16
You are not allowed drink on the supporters bus, end of story.

Be good if this thread was binned admin.

brandon5160
17-02-2017, 19:48
You are not allowed drink on the supporters bus, end of story.

Be good if this thread was binned admin.

I don't really see why it should be binned. I asked for clarification on something I read on theOFFICIAL government website which led me to my initial conclusion. Someone then linked to law legislation which didn't mention my original query about HIRE of the bus but did leave it open to being able to consume in a vehicle with less than 8 passengers. I'm not condoning or promoting consumption on buses. I was merely asking the question and making the point how ridiculous it is that there is 1 law for football fans and 1 law for everyone else

mitchellmccoist
17-02-2017, 19:51
Why should it be binned, surely clarification can only be a good thing for the fans?

Didn't notice anything on the original rules about lacing bottles of juice by the way!

skyger
17-02-2017, 21:02
As an aside to this, a police friend of mine ( good bluenose ) informs me that if a bus is stopped the police have no right to search any individual while on the bus, if however you step off the bus it is then ok for a search to take place, food for thought ?

icrfc
17-02-2017, 21:25
As an aside to this, a police friend of mine ( good bluenose ) informs me that if a bus is stopped the police have no right to search any individual while on the bus, if however you step off the bus it is then ok for a search to take place, food for thought ?

Ive been on buses that have been stopped and searched and Ive never seen anybody get searched, although Ive seen bags opened. Normally we keep everybody on the bus if we are getting searched, its quicker to get the search out the way and get back on the road.

As a wee aside, the police searched our bus before the Scottish Cup final, and the sergeant in charge said "we are looking for any alcohol or pyrotechnics on board". Quick as a flash a lad replied "Im not sure about pyrotechnics but theres definitely a few rockets on board" :D :D :D

Tomato Plant
17-02-2017, 21:41
Our bus got done once for having a bottle of whisky in someone's bag in the hold.

Bobby Banger
17-02-2017, 21:58
Do folk really need a drink to go to the football?

Stewie1873
17-02-2017, 22:00
I think it's to a sporting event though. For some reason I think the train is ok.

Scotrail normally issue a ban on drink for a specified time for both Football and Rugby games.

skyger
17-02-2017, 22:03
Ive been on buses that have been stopped and searched and Ive never seen anybody get searched, although Ive seen bags opened. Normally we keep everybody on the bus if we are getting searched, its quicker to get the search out the way and get back on the road.

As a wee aside, the police searched our bus before the Scottish Cup final, and the sergeant in charge said "we are looking for any alcohol or pyrotechnics on board". Quick as a flash a lad replied "Im not sure about pyrotechnics but theres definitely a few rockets on board" :D :D :D

Ha ha very good, I am a very occasional drinker myself but I see nothing wrong with fans having a drink on the way and even at the football, yes there are some idiots, but generally Rangers fans are well behaved, alcohol is very much more available everywhere, apart from football in Scotland, we as fans are no worse or better than Rugby or Cricket. Yet we are discriminated against, I personally would not have a drink at the football,but I should have the right to if I wish.

Stewie1873
17-02-2017, 22:07
Do folk really need a drink to go to the football?

I think the issue is more of double standards.

Wee scenario for you.

We are at home on a Saturday 3pm kick off no drink allowed on any buses going to Ibrox

A gig at the Hydro same day same time can drink as much as they want.

rangersno.1
17-02-2017, 22:19
Dr Pepper loyal

kingsburyblue
17-02-2017, 22:27
I've been on buses in the 70's where empty cans and the dregs from them would be rolling up and down under your feet.

I can never remember any trouble on a supporters bus when people were drinking

Cyberniv
17-02-2017, 22:52
I've been on buses in the 70's where empty cans and the dregs from them would be rolling up and down under your feet.

I can never remember any trouble on a supporters bus when people were drinking

Alcohol got the blame for every piece of football hooliganism, it became political as football is the highest profile sport, and rightly or wrongly, was made an example of.

All societies ills were scapegoated onto football, it wasn't a case of casual bias against football, it was a calculated, deliberate and targetted decision.

hunter1rfc
17-02-2017, 23:55
boost bottles loyal :D

hunter1rfc
17-02-2017, 23:57
Do folk really need a drink to go to the football?

away trips on a bus on the swally with mates is magnificent

put it in bottles simple

icrfc
18-02-2017, 02:47
away trips on a bus on the swally with mates is magnificent

put it in bottles simple

I concur with all of this.

Scottish politicians fail to realise that our national game isnt of a brilliant standard, and if you take away having a swally, a laugh with your mates, and the chance to shout and sing at other like minded bams on the other side of the segregation then as a spectator sport it loses something.

toadegree
18-02-2017, 03:49
Do some busses still turn a blind eye to it? Who is responsible if caught breaking the law? The individual supporter, the supporters club or the bus company? Is it just supporters busses that you can't drink on it all busses?
The individual, the bus convenor, the driver, or all three.

DalryBear
18-02-2017, 05:52
The individual, the bus convenor, the driver, or all three.

Aye I'm a bus convener myself and it's myself and the drivers details they take down off the bus while they conduct search. We've been searched twice this season already. Aberdeen and Ross county.

bluegirl
18-02-2017, 08:43
Been involved in running a few buses in the past. It is usually the bus convener and the driver that they are interested in. Always found this strange that the person drinking is usually ignored. I guess this is because there are multiple drinkers and better just to deal with driver and convener.

The law is quite clear for the example the OP gives. His bus (let's say a mini-bus) is not for hire.

This section of law indicates that person drinking on bus is committing an offence.


(3)This subsection applies to a motor vehicle which is not a public service vehicle but which is adapted to carry more than 8 passengers and is being operated for the [F3principal] purpose of conveying two or more passengers for the whole or part of a journey to or from a designated sporting event.

(4)Any person in possession of alcohol on a vehicle to which subsection (3) above applies shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a period not exceeding 60 days or a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale or both.

The next bit is the bit for conveners and the driver.

Any person who permits alcohol to be carried on a vehicle to which subsection (3) above applies and—

(a)is the driver of the vehicle; or

(b)where he is not its driver, is the keeper of the vehicle, the employee or agent of the keeper, a person to whom it is made available (by hire, loan or otherwise) by the keeper or the keeper’s employee or agent, or the employee or agent of a person to whom it is so made available,

For larger buses we've put notices on the bus "Alcohol is not permitted on this bus. Anyone attempting to do so will be refused entry". This way the bus driver and convener are covering themselves. They are not knowingly allowing drink on but can turn a blind eye if folk bring it on say in a rucksack. We used to have a rule that drink needed to be in a bag. Folk were not allowed on with say a crate of beer.

It's only if you bus is pulled a few times they'll take it further. Usually ask you to empty the drink. I've always found Perth police to be the worst for enforcing this - even when passing though to Dundee or Inverness. One of our young boys had drink taken off him at Tesco St Johnstone as "we believe you are taking it on a bus". Totally illegal but if boy argued he'd not have been allowed to board bus.

toadegree
18-02-2017, 09:38
Do folk really need a drink to go to the football?
We leave home at 08.30 and get back at 22.00, a wee swally helps, especially on the way back.

stayfor90mins
18-02-2017, 10:45
Do folk really need a drink to go to the football?

You've not seen us play much this season have you?

mfgorm
18-02-2017, 11:01
There are posters in stations about alcohol bans for football, rugby at Murrayfield and Ayr races. My wife was coming back to Glasgow from Fife a couple of weeks ago and virtually everyone going to the rugby was bevvying. Male and female.
One oddity I've noticed, for games at Hampden it only seems to be trains from Central. There are usually polis at the barriers or on the train going to Mount Florida and drink confiscated. I've got on trains to town and plenty drink and no polis.

SemperParatus
18-02-2017, 11:56
Do folk really need a drink to go to the football?

Do you need to act like a dick all the time?

SM
18-02-2017, 12:37
Do folk really need a drink to go to the football?

Have you watched us at any point during the past five years?