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mentalbox
02-07-2015, 23:38
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/9552-henry-happy-with-pre-season-start

mine would be what justification did JH use to keep his role - must have been a close call

ChicagoBear
02-07-2015, 23:48
Like the players the rest of the staff should get clean slates. Our fitness has been shocking this last 3 years or so. Hopefully with a more professional management team in place we'll see an overall improvement in many areas including player fitness.

Del
02-07-2015, 23:54
The last few years have been much more about desire and professionalism.

I would say unprofessional players where a far bigger problem than JH.

suramericaranger
03-07-2015, 00:11
The absolutely shambolic management was a bigger problem than the fitness coach or sports science. It was a ****ing holiday camp engineered to meet the deplorable attitude of the manager.

CPA Bluenose
03-07-2015, 01:27
We've just had over 3 years of

1980s attitude to training.

1980s attitude to being a professional sportsman / athlete.


It showed. Our moronic tactic of 'keep it tight until the part time opponents get tired' finally caught up with us.

WokinghamBear
03-07-2015, 06:30
A bit like the scouting network debate, if the manger or the club genuinely isn't interested in acting on the output from the fitness, sports science, scouting or any other specialism then they on a hiding to nothing.
Ally McCoist, like any other manager, would point to a couple of promotions as a marker that his way was working. Everyone could see that it was very limited and many predicted that things would unravel in the Championship.

Jon Snow
03-07-2015, 06:33
The 9IAR training sessions and lifestyles prevented us winning the European Cup/Champs League. McCoist obviously was one of them, so seemed to think he could have the same sort of domestic success on the same methods, forgetting that 1) we were already in the dark ages then, and football has moved on, and 2) it only worked because we had better players than everyone else in the first place.

Kenny Powers
03-07-2015, 08:05
Honestly, I just read that and genuinely don't feel much comfort that he is really all that up to the job.

To contrast.

The interview with mullholland and how much he enthused about his role and what he wanted.

I really don't think JH is good enough or has enough actual knowledge to get the players the fittest / strongest they can be.

Yes I agree with the above in that it has to come from the manager and j believe that is key, but if we see a fitter squad I feel it won't be down to JH knowledge of sports science.

bertram
03-07-2015, 08:09
How did his holiday go?

burnleybank8463
03-07-2015, 12:28
It's hard to say -- given the last 3 years -- whether things are on the right track for strength and conditioning.

I guess we'll see what kind of physical condition the players are in when they play some real matches.


Nonetheless, there's been a few things I've been concerned about from the official site recently:

1. Stupid bosu ball stuff. In my opinion, bosu balls do not help stability, balance, or strength any more significantly than being directly connected to the floor or the ground. In fact, I'd say the latter is better.

2. Clark's terrible squat with a tiny barbell, with bad form. The form was bad, as follows:

A. Knees not out enough. (Means you can't get a high quality injury-free squat. The knees are not protected, you can't get down "into" the squat, and the groin and glutes don't take on as much work [as the knees and quads are taking on the work]. The number-one squat cue of all time is "knees out", and it was a little disconcerting that he wasn't doing that.)
B. Spine not straight; chin not "tucked in". (Tucking-in/pulling-down the chin helps with a straight spine. By "straight spine", I mean that the spine is solid and rigid, like a steel rod. Tucking-in the chin means you'll be looking slightly downwards when you squat down.)
C. Abs not "braced inwards" enough. (Helps with feeling solid in the movement generally, and keeps the spine straight, especially for tall lifters/athletes.)
D. Didn't squeeze glutes at the top. (Helps low-back and spine.)

In any case, the weight was so light that it probably didn't matter (i.e., no harm done).

I'd prefer to see players -- those who can do them properly without injuring themselves and who can therefore get a benefit from them -- do good quality squats in the racks. For those who can't, Trap Bar Deadlifts. Then, look to (1) Single Leg Split Stance Squats with Rear Foot Elevated (bodyweight/dumbells/weight-vest), and (2) Walking Lunges (soft ground; bodyweight/weight-vest). The first-two are great for building all-body strength. The latter-two are great for building running power and solid/protected knees. All are great for building "big quads" and "big glutes". I'd like to see more racks and platforms if there is room for them.

3. Talking about players doing tennis and similar activities. This is really not for me. The players are professional footballers -- that is what they have specialised in. They don't need to do boxing, tennis, basketball, or any of those things. They are already doing enough training with football.


Still, these are only 3 small things. A lot of the other stuff on the official site looked good/reassuring. The field-work, for example, looked excellent.

Guess we'll see what happens under new first-team management. I trust Warburton as he comes with experience from a very intense/physical league.



_____________________________________
EDIT: Apologies -- made some minor edits.

Kenny Powers
03-07-2015, 12:36
Given the last three years, I'm not sure if he's doing a good job or not.

In that recent article, there's no details of what the players really do provided, so again, it's hard to say whether things are on the right track.

I guess we'll see what kind of physical condition the players are in when they play some real matches.


Nonetheless, there's been a few things I've been concerned about from the official site recently:

1. Stupid bosu ball stuff. In my opinion, bosu balls do not help stability, balance, or strength any more significantly than being directly connected to the floor or the ground. In fact, I'd say the latter is better.

2. Clark's terrible squat with a tiny barbel, with bad form. The form was bad, as follows:

* knees not out enough -- means you can't get a high quality injury-free squat. Knees are not protected, and you can't get down "into" the squat.
* spine not straight; chin not "tucked on" (tucking in/pulling down the chin helps with a straight spine).
* abs not "braced inwards" enough (helps with feeling solid in the movement generally).
* didn't squeeze glutes at the top (again, helps low-back and spine).

In any case, the weight was so light that it probably didn't matter (i.e., no harm done).

3. Talking about players doing tennis and basketball. This is really not for me. The players are professional footballers -- that is what they have specialised in. They don't need to do boxing, tennis, basketball, or any of those things. They are already doing enough training with football.


Still, these are only 3 small things. A lot of the other stuff on the official site looked reassuring.

Overall, as far as I'm aware, JH's pre-EPL background comes from training for fighting sports. Not sure he's the right guy for Rangers. We'll see.


Have to say I totally agree with this as I mentioned the same re. the bosu balls and that particular squat movement.

The tone of his interview is that of someone who just doesnt know what he is doing or wants to achieve with them, as I said in comparison to the interview a few months back with Mullholland who was able to be quite certain about what he wanted and expected.

Players should be on individual programs both for training and for nutrition.

I would like to see them given set macro values to track and account for with body composition and body weight readings to ensure they are on point and eating at a level that is conducive to performance and either losing body fat or increasing lean mass where required.

I would like to see some improvement in both strength and conditioning for a lot of players.

Now he wasnt with us last season obviously but look at the difference in shape of Wilson and Kiernan at their dual unveiling, I am happy with both signings but you can see a marked difference in the two. Ergo, a need for more individual approaches to improve the players composition, strength and fitness.

Kenny Powers
03-07-2015, 12:44
It's hard to say -- given the last 3 years -- whether things are on the right track for strength and conditioning.

I guess we'll see what kind of physical condition the players are in when they play some real matches.


Nonetheless, there's been a few things I've been concerned about from the official site recently:

1. Stupid bosu ball stuff. In my opinion, bosu balls do not help stability, balance, or strength any more significantly than being directly connected to the floor or the ground. In fact, I'd say the latter is better.

2. Clark's terrible squat with a tiny barbel, with bad form. The form was bad, as follows:

* knees not out enough -- means you can't get a high quality injury-free squat. Knees are not protected, you can't get down "into" the squat, and the groin and glutes don't take on as much work (as the knees and quads are taking on the work).
* spine not straight; chin not "tucked in" (tucking in/pulling down the chin helps with a straight spine).
* abs not "braced inwards" enough (helps with feeling solid in the movement generally, keeps the spine straight, especially for tall lifters).
* didn't squeeze glutes at the top (again, helps low-back and spine).

In any case, the weight was so light that it probably didn't matter (i.e., no harm done).

Would prefer to see players (those who can do them without injuring themselves and actually get a benefit from them) do proper good quality squats in the racks. For those who can't, Trap Bar Deadlifts.

3. Talking about players doing tennis and basketball. This is really not for me. The players are professional footballers -- that is what they have specialised in. They don't need to do boxing, tennis, basketball, or any of those things. They are already doing enough training with football.


Still, these are only 3 small things. A lot of the other stuff on the official site looked good/reassuring.

Guess we'll see what happens under new first-team management. I trust Warburton as he comes with experience from a very intense/physical league.



_____________________________________
EDIT: Apologies -- made some minor edits!


Imho there should be no reason why any of them cannot manage a properly executed squat managing the proper mechanics using a suitably weight Olympic bar in a rack.

burnleybank8463
03-07-2015, 12:49
Imho there should be no reason why any of them cannot manage a properly executed squat managing the proper mechanics using a suitably weight Olympic bar in a rack.

For most folk I agree with you.

I have a theory that some of the "real" strength training is hidden and not shown on camera. Who knows.

Gunther Netzer
03-07-2015, 14:34
The last line in the article confirms the feedback from the Manager as to what he wants says it all.

Kenny Powers
03-07-2015, 14:43
For most folk I agree with you.

I have a theory that some of the "real" strength training is hidden and not shown on camera. Who knows.

Not so sure mate, based on that particular squat pic we have both noticed.

If they are being "hidden" then a) why?, nothing to be gained from hiding that player x can squat 160kg and b) why have something like the NC photo shown?

I look at our players and I just dont get the impression they are going through a proper strength and conditioning training program. Never have either.

A professional athlete should have nothing impeding them from doing any Olympic lifts in a controlled supervised environment.

Ive had 5 knee ops including reconstruction of my ACL and I can squat without problem.

Rom8
03-07-2015, 14:45
I'm not a fan of any kind of weight in a squat. Bodyweight is sufficient and there are various progressions you can go through. A weight - and admittedly Clark's was ridiculously small - just encourages bad form. I agree that the technique was poor and this is the key for any exercise.

I agree that players shouldn't be devoting time to other sports even as recreation. Strachan makes this point about golf - that if the players were asked before a game to go on a three mile walk whilst carrying weights on their back, they would rightly refuse. Yet they think they can play golf a day before a game.

Henry's comment about following the instruction of the manager is significant. I'm sceptical that he or any of the fitness team received any kind of guidance as to what McCoist wanted to achieve for each player. It doesn't seem as though Warburton is like this. Everyone performs better in their job with clear, achievable goals and a positive support network (one of MW's slides!).

Kenny Powers
03-07-2015, 14:56
I'm not a fan of any kind of weight in a squat. Bodyweight is sufficient and there are various progressions you can go through. A weight - and admittedly Clark's was ridiculously small - just encourages bad form. I agree that the technique was poor and this is the key for any exercise.

I agree that players shouldn't be devoting time to other sports even as recreation. Strachan makes this point about golf - that if the players were asked before a game to go on a three mile walk whilst carrying weights on their back, they would rightly refuse. Yet they think they can play golf a day before a game.

Henry's comment about following the instruction of the manager is significant. I'm sceptical that he or any of the fitness team received any kind of guidance as to what McCoist wanted to achieve for each player. It doesn't seem as though Warburton is like this. Everyone performs better in their job with clear, achievable goals and a positive support network (one of MW's slides!).

Eh? If you want to strengthen your legs then body weight squats is not going to do it...

Agree with the golf before a game comment though, they should be at most allowed to do this as active recovery the day after a game perhaps and id advocate use of at least a push buggy.

Stewie_Griffin
03-07-2015, 15:02
Sports science guys actually have very little time with the team during the season.

Sports specific skill
Tactics
Recovery(physio massauese etc)

Would be given higher priority then getting them into squat etc. during the season training intensities are shifted week to week and a weekly peak is required which isn't common in most sports.

Olympic lifting and loaded squats while not the only route to use in terms of power and strength development are great tools, but single leg work and even water based plyometrics greatly reduce joint stress while producing similar results.

In terms of the bosu work I disagree with the doubters it's a great piece of kit, especially in rehab trying to reconnect the ankle to the neural system, on a side not Chelsea have a sandpit at their ground which is filled with sand and also multiple bosus

AnglianBear
03-07-2015, 15:05
Our problem as fans is we have no idea what happens behind closed doors.

Often a company will take an "expert" on with a view to changing certain aspects of the business but that expert will face resistence from existing staff. We don't know if Henry faced this with McCoist & Co who may have been reluctant to take on board his advice.

Warburton is a man of modern methods and is far more likely to allow Henry to implement his plans. There is no doubt that something was seriously wrong with our fitness last season. I remember when we took JH on there was talk of us putting four or five past teams in the dying minutes as we were so fit and they were so knackered. How wrong could we be? We just have to hope that there was implementation issues between Henry & McCoist/McDowell.

53easy
03-07-2015, 15:08
Did Jim Henry not **** off on holiday while we had play-off games last year?

Del
03-07-2015, 15:14
Did Jim Henry not **** off on holiday while we had play-off games last year?

Only problem was his contract had expired and as far he was aware was not being renewed. Normal thing to do when your contract ends is stop turning up for work.

The biggest problem JH had was players were allowed to opt out of fitness and nutrition programs. Blame the manager for not being stronger.

Don't believe the spin.:ninja:

Rom8
03-07-2015, 15:15
Eh? If you want to strengthen your legs then body weight squats is not going to do it...

We're developing footballers, not powerlifters.

Personally, I'm a fan of Mark Lauren, Convict Conditioning, etc. and what these guys say about using bodyweight resistance for strength through progression - e.g. pistol squats. Very little need for most people, including footballers, to be putting crazy stress on their joints and aiming for unnatural movements.


Agree with the golf before a game comment though, they should be at most allowed to do this as active recovery the day after a game perhaps and id advocate use of at least a push buggy.

I think it's all about conserving energy. They can play golf when they retire.

53easy
03-07-2015, 15:17
Only problem was his contract had expired and as far he was aware was not being renewed. Normal thing to do when your contract ends is stop turning up for work.

The biggest problem JH had was players were allowed to opt out of fitness and nutrition programs. Blame the manager for not being stronger.

Don't believe the spin.:ninja:

He sounds really committed to Rangers.

CPA Bluenose
03-07-2015, 15:48
Training programmes /diet should be specific to each individual, their body shape, their position on the pitch, current strengths & weaknesses.

When you look at the dynamics/requirements on the pitch for different positions only a lunatic would give them all the same 'sheep-dip' training.

ca100
03-07-2015, 15:49
Raman Bhardwaj now reporting that Henry has left the club.

Kenny Powers
03-07-2015, 15:51
A moot point now that he and Durie have been let go....

TBH I am glad to hear it, I want a clear out and more determined hungry staff brought in just never had a good feeling about his ability.

Agree with you CPA, one size never fits all.

Kenny Powers
03-07-2015, 15:56
We're developing footballers, not powerlifters.

Personally, I'm a fan of Mark Lauren, Convict Conditioning, etc. and what these guys say about using bodyweight resistance for strength through progression - e.g. pistol squats. Very little need for most people, including footballers, to be putting crazy stress on their joints and aiming for unnatural movements.



I think it's all about conserving energy. They can play golf when they retire.

yes, because pistol squats is totally a natural movement....

There is a lot more stress put on the joints doing that and doing a normal squat.

olympic lifts doesnt equat to the need to be a powerlifter in size or shape.

Rom8
03-07-2015, 16:00
yes, because pistol squats is totally a natural movement....

It's a progression. A squat is a basic sit-to-stand natural movement. There are ways of increasing the tension and the difficulty without compromising on the core of the exercise. I certainly believe something like a pistol squat is more beneficial and challenging than a squat with a bloody barbell over your back. The amount of weightlifters you meet with chronic joint problems tells you that.

I'd get rid of the gym machines at Ibrox!

Kenny Powers
03-07-2015, 16:07
It's a progression. A squat is a basic sit-to-stand natural movement. There are ways of increasing the tension and the difficulty without compromising on the core of the exercise. I certainly believe something like a pistol squat is more beneficial and challenging than a squat with a bloody barbell over your back. The amount of weightlifters you meet with chronic joint problems tells you that.

I'd get rid of the gym machines at Ibrox!

Yes, because those weightlifters aren't doing them properly (something you do see an awful lot of in any gym - often because they forget its not what you lift but how you lift it) however, professional athletes in a controlled environment and properly set out program should have no issues doing such a movement.

I have tried pistol squats and honestly found it a lot more strain on my knee than squatting light or heavy.

Del
03-07-2015, 16:15
He sounds really committed to Rangers.

Your right, it is the norm for people to hang around and continue working despite no longer being employed. My bad:angel:

The guys contract finished, he was no doubt told his time was up and said his goodbyes. The club decided when he worked, not JH himself.

Edit- They have just confirmed he has been emptied. Close the thread

BR3 Staunch
03-07-2015, 16:16
It's a progression. A squat is a basic sit-to-stand natural movement. There are ways of increasing the tension and the difficulty without compromising on the core of the exercise. I certainly believe something like a pistol squat is more beneficial and challenging than a squat with a bloody barbell over your back. The amount of weightlifters you meet with chronic joint problems tells you that.

I'd get rid of the gym machines at Ibrox!

So you want rid of machines and don't want them doing any barbell exercises either?

The machines are operate on a fixed plane of motion, there is literally zero risk to a persons joint on a machine and even using barbells when done properly.

There is a reason that olympic lifting is a tried and true method for developing speed and power across all sports and that is because it simply works and the muscles recruited during the movements are used during most major movements in sports.

Pistol squats are by far one of the more complex movements that you could ask an individual to perform and they have limited transferability into a game of football.

A pistol squat would just about put Kenny Miller in a wheelchair.

Kenny Powers
03-07-2015, 16:23
Machines do serve a purpose and in particular for maintenance phases of training or deload weeks and as BR3 rightly says, reduce the risk of joint damage (again down to proper loading)

Elvis Cole
03-07-2015, 16:29
We're developing footballers, not powerlifters.

Personally, I'm a fan of Mark Lauren, Convict Conditioning, etc. and what these guys say about using bodyweight resistance for strength through progression - e.g. pistol squats. Very little need for most people, including footballers, to be putting crazy stress on their joints and aiming for unnatural movements.



I think it's all about conserving energy. They can play golf when they retire.

Aye playiing golf every day really affected Hansen and Dalglish.

Then again they could pass and control the phuckin ball.

AnglianBear
03-07-2015, 16:36
It's hard to say -- given the last 3 years -- whether things are on the right track for strength and conditioning.

I guess we'll see what kind of physical condition the players are in when they play some real matches.


Nonetheless, there's been a few things I've been concerned about from the official site recently:

1. Stupid bosu ball stuff. In my opinion, bosu balls do not help stability, balance, or strength any more significantly than being directly connected to the floor or the ground. In fact, I'd say the latter is better.

2. Clark's terrible squat with a tiny barbell, with bad form. The form was bad, as follows:

* knees not out enough -- means you can't get a high quality injury-free squat. The knees are not protected, you can't get down "into" the squat, and the groin and glutes don't take on as much work (as the knees and quads are taking on the work). The number-one squat cue of all time is "knees out", and it was a little disconcerting that he wasn't doing that.
* spine not straight; chin not "tucked in" (tucking in/pulling down the chin helps with a straight spine).
* abs not "braced inwards" enough (helps with feeling solid in the movement generally, keeps the spine straight, especially for tall lifters/athletes).
* didn't squeeze glutes at the top (again, helps low-back and spine).

In any case, the weight was so light that it probably didn't matter (i.e., no harm done).

I'd prefer to see players -- those who can do them properly without injuring themselves and who can therefore get a benefit from them -- do good quality squats in the racks. For those who can't, Trap Bar Deadlifts. Then, look to Single Leg Split Stance Squats with Rear Foot Elevated (bodyweight/dumbells/weight-vest), and Walking Lunges (bodyweight/weight-vest). The first-two are great for building all-body strength. The latter-two are great for building running power and solid/protected knees. All are great for building "big quads" and "big glutes".

3. Talking about players doing tennis and similar activities. This is really not for me. The players are professional footballers -- that is what they have specialised in. They don't need to do boxing, tennis, basketball, or any of those things. They are already doing enough training with football.


Still, these are only 3 small things. A lot of the other stuff on the official site looked good/reassuring. The field-work, for example, looked excellent.

Guess we'll see what happens under new first-team management. I trust Warburton as he comes with experience from a very intense/physical league.



_____________________________________
EDIT: Apologies -- made some minor edits!

Looks like you saw what Warburton saw.

kirkieger
03-07-2015, 16:42
Looks like there's a chance our Club might realise it's the 21st century.

Enigma
03-07-2015, 17:17
Never had all this shite when i played many moons ago,Todays footballers are no more than prima donna's with all their falling down at the slightest touch and rolling around like someone hit them with a brick to the head.

We turned up got changed and ran around like madmen for 90mins and in the summer playing two games a day was the norm,anyone injured normally just ran it off and plenty played with strains and sprains and just continued.

Todays footballers are indeed a delicate little bunch needing plenty of cuddles.

Bigmother
03-07-2015, 17:43
Never had all this shite when i played many moons ago,Todays footballers are no more than prima donna's with all their falling down at the slightest touch and rolling around like someone hit them with a brick to the head.

We turned up got changed and ran around like madmen for 90mins and in the summer playing two games a day was the norm,anyone injured normally just ran it off and plenty played with strains and sprains and just continued.

Todays footballers are indeed a delicate little bunch needing plenty of cuddles.

What was it like playing with a cap on and a pipe in your mouth ?
Sport has moved on.
Sports science can benefit players. To ignore it is to be left behind.

The Realm Defender
03-07-2015, 17:54
The 9IAR training sessions and lifestyles prevented us winning the European Cup/Champs League. McCoist obviously was one of them, so seemed to think he could have the same sort of domestic success on the same methods, forgetting that 1) we were already in the dark ages then, and football has moved on, and 2) it only worked because we had better players than everyone else in the first place.

Are we just forgetting about Bernard Tapie now?
Let's just blame the players lifestyle because its easier.

InsanicDrunk
03-07-2015, 17:58
Are we just forgetting about Bernard Tapie now?
Let's just blame the players lifestyle because its easier.

That was one season, we under performed for years in Europe, we should have been able to at least reach a final in one of they years!


I dont do sports, or fitness, but I can't believe that he thinks footballers should be playing tennis!! I remember when golf was banned in case of injuries!

Enigma
03-07-2015, 18:09
What was it like playing with a cap on and a pipe in your mouth ?
Sport has moved on.
Sports science can benefit players. To ignore it is to be left behind.Your totally missing the point of my post..Never mind