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View Full Version : This SPL "Land of Milk and Honey" talk



TheKillerToad
11-07-2014, 19:13
I keep hearing about how its vital that we get into the SPL and then we can worry about the rest. All these short term deals and players who can "do a job" all to reach what seems to be billed by some as the "Land of Milk and Honey" where all our problems will be solved.

I understand we need to get back to competing in the SPL to qualify for Europe but I sometimes wonder just exactly what the SPL is being built up to be. Most of the clubs in the SPL are pink lint and its a league without a sponsor.

You could argue that it offers access to CL football but if we're being honest how on earth are we supposed to be assembling a squad to do that in 1 summer transfer window? The antics in the boardroom are well documented and we are weighed down by onerous contracts.

Getting to the SPL is one thing but to actually be in a position to compete for CL football (which is where the only real big prize is) is another. I just dont see how merely "being" in the SPL is going to be enough. Its hardly a cash cow.

This short term planning is going to to come back to bite us on the arse next year when we cant launch a proper assault on the league.

Invicta_Loyal04
11-07-2014, 19:30
Sadly under this current board long term planning is completely pointless. We'll be in the shit again in 6-12 months regardless whether we win or lose every game next season.

The chance for long term planning was 2 years ago. Sadly we had an equally shit board back then who just wanted to line their own pockets.

muthacupboard
11-07-2014, 19:35
It offers the chance of Champions league football, maybe not instantly but that's where those long term plans that everyone bores on about come in.

A1bertz
11-07-2014, 19:37
In 12 months time we will need to be thinking about extending the contracts of those who we know are not good enough. Nothing will change, we will not be able to attract much better than we attract now. Fear not though, after a few seasons, we may be able to challenge Aberdeen.

INVERURIEBEAR
11-07-2014, 19:40
In 12 months time we will need to be thinking about extending the contracts of those who we know are not good enough. Nothing will change, we will not be able to attract much better than we attract now. Fear not though, after a few seasons, we may be able to challenge Aberdeen.

You are not far wrong I'm afraid and today's transfer news that we have reasoned Simmonsen just fills my heart with joy that we are looking to he future in regards to getting back to the top ! I fu(king despair at McCoist's transfer strategy or rather serious lack off !

Zagga
11-07-2014, 19:42
I try not to be too negative with my posts as there's more than enough of that on here but the reality is the very best we can eventually hope for is to be the best team in Scotland again and trying to avoid getting pumped in the champions league.Maybe a Europa run at best.It's not about "having standards" or not wanting to "aim for the stars".It's simply the reality of where we are are the moment.

Frankly short term/long term it really doesn't matter as without major investment in quality players we're going to be playing second fiddle to them for a very long time.

Even if we did have a band of plucky vibrant talented youngsters and brought them through as a team for a few seasons they'd have been picked off by EPL/Championship sides after a decent half season at the top level.

The Ajax model? How much is their wage bill.Last time I googled it I think it was around £60m per season.I remember when we all wanted to be like Rosenborg...

We are so far behind where we all want to be it would be laughable if we weren't talking about the team we all love.

I for one certainly don't see the SPL as some kind of land of milk and honey.In fact with all the bitterness and hatred over what's happened to us I find myself agreeing with other posters who reckon Scottish football might just end up hating itself to death.

truebluerfc
11-07-2014, 19:43
Our only hope is that we'll have a new regime in charge by then,with investors who can afford and are actually willing to invest to build a team capable of getting us into the Champions League

DadoPrso42
11-07-2014, 19:44
Forget the Champions League, Europa League would be a huge source of income relative to the likes of the Ramsdens Cup. All that takes is a 4th place finish.

Ticket revenue will be markedly higher, there's no doubt about that. The away section will be packed out at Ibrox most weeks, and far more fans will flock to see us play SPFL opposition. And then there's Old Firm games and the matchday revenue, sponsorship and TV deal that comes with it.

There's absolutely no question, the SPFL is where we need to be. The Wigs may be a bunch of crooks but they recognize this and that's why we're spending everything we can to ensure promotion.

Bknowe
11-07-2014, 19:49
It's not a land of milk and honey, the only reason we want to be in it is for European Money. That's what we need to survive and why the tims tried to get us banned from Europe in the first place with all their song complaints during our 3IAR. They needed the European money just as bad as we did, and still do.

Both Rangers and Celtic are too big for Scottish Football and require more cash than is available here to compete at the level we want to compete at. It simply isn't sustainable to run both clubs purely on Sponsorship and TV money available in Scotland.

JohnDarwinsCanoe
11-07-2014, 19:53
Up there with the journey talk and how it's nearly complete.

The journey to what? Just being in the SPL with mediocre players and not compete. The journey hasn't even begun.

barryhopez
11-07-2014, 19:57
It offers the chance of Champions league football, maybe not instantly but that's where those long term plans that everyone bores on about come in.

You are quite correct, IMO. Playing against St Johnstone and Killie is certainly not the land of milk and honey, the European football rewards are.

sensiblesteve
11-07-2014, 20:03
We've got every chance of playing champions league football in our first season back in the top flight IMO , the tarriers aren't great don't have " world class players " and are rapidly downsizing

Fingers crossed they make a Rex hunt of it this year ( and there's a fair chance they could ) then we will see if they've all these supposed millions they claim to have

We won't be a million miles away with a couple of decent signings the season after next

Celtic aren't brilliant neither are the sheep , we've just signed a striker in Boyd who will out score anything they've got up front just now , I suppose time will tell

Their day of reckoning won't be that far away ...

uneasydaz
11-07-2014, 20:10
all that will happen when we get back to the spl is Miller Boyd Jig and Daly will get new deals and we will look at what other +30 year olds are on a free. All the promising youngsters will be sold deemed not good enough:(

Dr Oliver Thredson
11-07-2014, 20:15
Back to the old "reach the CL group stages or bust" mentality that had us putting our entire squad up for sale and not signing a player for 2 years

But it's the promised land and all that

barryhopez
11-07-2014, 20:17
Back to the old "reach the CL group stages or bust" mentality that had us putting our entire squad up for sale and not signing a player for 2 years

But it's the promised land and all that

I completely understand what you are saying in your post.

The sad reality is, that's where we are at.......CL group stages reached and a windfall as such......it's the reality of the situation.

JohnDarwinsCanoe
11-07-2014, 20:21
We've got every chance of playing champions league football in our first season back in the top flight IMO , the tarriers aren't great don't have " world class players " and are rapidly downsizing

Fingers crossed they make a Rex hunt of it this year ( and there's a fair chance they could ) then we will see if they've all these supposed millions they claim to have

We won't be a million miles away with a couple of decent signings the season after next

Celtic aren't brilliant neither are the sheep , we've just signed a striker in Boyd who will out score anything they've got up front just now , I suppose time will tell

Their day of reckoning won't be that far away ...

And this is the sort of delusion most will be going back with. They even claimed last season the team we had would finish second at worst until we got scudded 3-0 by an average Dundee Utd side.

A 35 year old Miller and 32 year old Boyd are supposed to take us back to the top? Reality is without major investment we'll be competing for second at best.

Catatonic
11-07-2014, 20:25
We're currently 95th in the UEFA rankings, in 2 years time, our coefficient will have us around the league if Ireland mark and we'd be unseeded for the champions route. Which would make it difficult but not impossible to reach the group stages

sensiblesteve
11-07-2014, 20:45
And this is the sort of delusion most will be going back with. They even claimed last season the team we had would finish second at worst until we got scudded 3-0 by an average Dundee Utd side.

A 35 year old Miller and 32 year old Boyd are supposed to take us back to the top? Reality is without major investment we'll be competing for second at best.

A 32 year old Boyd who scored 22 goals in the top league for Kilmarnock

The tarriers are nothing special , bummed up by a compliant media with the prime example being the " Diddy keeper " and a Dutch defender so good he's worth 10 million after 8 months in Scotland

Coupled with them downsizing and with us a few decent signings we won't be that far off them IMO

Their recent signings have been shocking

Bknowe
11-07-2014, 20:50
A 32 year old Boyd who scored 22 goals in the top league for Kilmarnock

The tarriers are nothing special , bummed up by a compliant media with the prime example being the " Diddy keeper " and a Dutch defender so good he's worth 10 million after 8 months in Scotland

Coupled with them downsizing and with us a few decent signings we won't be that far off them IMO

Their recent signings have been shocking

I agree with you Steve.

Boyd and Miller will still do a job, even in the Premier. Boyd pretty much kept Killie up with the goals he scored last term.

As for Rolf Harris FC, Forster will likely be for the off for an "undisclosed fee" that the media will inflate massively. The Dutchman is so "good", that he can't get in the worst Dutch defence I've seen for a while, whose best player is Vlaar from Aston Villa.

Zagga
11-07-2014, 21:21
I agree with you Steve.

Boyd and Miller will still do a job, even in the Premier. Boyd pretty much kept Killie up with the goals he scored last term.

As for Rolf Harris FC, Forster will likely be for the off for an "undisclosed fee" that the media will inflate massively. The Dutchman is so "good", that he can't get in the worst Dutch defence I've seen for a while, whose best player is Vlaar from Aston Villa.

No disrespect but you're talking about not rating a player because he failed to make the squad of a team that just lost a World Cup semi final? I'll be honest I've not seen him play ( well brief highlights of games the tims got pumped in last season aside!) but compared to our 36yr old captain,ex Doncaster player and failed Leeds fullback I'd take a guess he's a far better player than them.And believe me I don't like saying that.

Boyd and Miller may well still do a job in the SPL but we're going to need a lot more than that to compete.They won 31/38 games and got 99 points last season without us there to push them.

My only hope would be that the SPL is so poor that it wouldn't take too much to hit a similar points total.When I say not much we'd probably still need to at least double our current wage bill and it would still be less than half of theirs.Whether we could do enough in the four games v them I don't know.

Someone asked what happens to this thread if we win the SPL first time if we carry on as we are.Well when I've finished celebrating I'll be happy to come back and say I was wrong and let the good times roll.

I just can't see that kind of rosy future as realistic at the moment.

We do deserve better and I just hope that better is out there somewhere and somewhere soon.

bornabluenose
11-07-2014, 21:25
Land of milk and honey , where.

The S.P.L is null and void as a viable entity in league terms.

the cruyff turn
11-07-2014, 21:29
i was slated for saying the only way to get rid of the board was not to get promotion. I didn't say I wanted Rangers to lose although it may have looked that way. I only wanted to point out to people that we are going to get hammered when we get promoted. There is no investment, no vision, no scouting policy. The board are not interested in HMRC and the tax case either. The has to be a bigger picture than looking forward to playing inverness,st johnstone, Kilmarnock, st Mirren, ross county, motherwell, partick at least 4 times a season. Does that really turn anyone on anymore?

Bknowe
11-07-2014, 21:38
No disrespect but you're talking about not rating a player because he failed to make the squad of a team that just lost a World Cup semi final? I'll be honest I've not seen him play ( well brief highlights of games the tims got pumped in last season aside!) but compared to our 36yr old captain,ex Doncaster player and failed Leeds fullback I'd take a guess he's a far better player than them.And believe me I don't like saying that.

Boyd and Miller may well still do a job in the SPL but we're going to need a lot more than that to compete.They won 31/38 games and got 99 points last season without us there to push them.

My only hope would be that the SPL is so poor that it wouldn't take too much to hit a similar points total.When I say not much we'd probably still need to at least double our current wage bill and it would still be less than half of theirs.Whether we could do enough in the four games v them I don't know.

Someone asked what happens to this thread if we win the SPL first time if we carry on as we are.Well when I've finished celebrating I'll be happy to come back and say I was wrong and let the good times roll.

I just can't see that kind of rosy future as realistic at the moment.

We do deserve better and I just hope that better is out there somewhere and somewhere soon.

You've kinda missed my point about Van Dijk. If he's as good as the Scottish Media say he is (£10m rated, Man U/Arsenal sniffing about) then he'd have been in the Dutch squad. It was more about the over valuing of players simply because they play for Ra Sellick, I'm not saying he's not a good player but he's nowhere near as good as he's made out to be.

You are right in that the SPL is dogsh!t and the tarriers are expected to rack up that kind of points total. So will we when we return, it will all depend on whether the current board do have a plan to compete or vamoose at the first opportunity or offer.

Only time will tell.

Top_Cat
11-07-2014, 21:42
Land of milk and honey , where.

The S.P.L is null and void as a viable entity in league terms.

It's a busted flush, but, it offers European football...revenue...to those crooks that are in charge...they full well know this

Zagga
11-07-2014, 21:43
The board aren't going to invest to try and get us to the Champions League so I don't think it would make much difference to them if we stayed in Div 1.In fact it would give them a good excuse to keep the wage bill down while they continued to pay themselves fortunes.

I really don't think there is a bigger picture mate.I wish there was.

the cruyff turn
11-07-2014, 21:45
European football? does anyone honestly expect us to even win a game in Europe in the next few years with the team and manager we have. We will be lucky to ever get into the champions league again for the foreseeable future, unless we get major investment.

Invicta_Loyal04
11-07-2014, 21:46
We've got every chance of playing champions league football in our first season back in the top flight IMO , the tarriers aren't great don't have " world class players " and are rapidly downsizing

Fingers crossed they make a Rex hunt of it this year ( and there's a fair chance they could ) then we will see if they've all these supposed millions they claim to have

We won't be a million miles away with a couple of decent signings the season after next

Celtic aren't brilliant neither are the sheep , we've just signed a striker in Boyd who will out score anything they've got up front just now , I suppose time will tell

Their day of reckoning won't be that far away ...

This is made even funnier by your username.

bornabluenose
11-07-2014, 21:47
It's a busted flush, but, it offers European football...revenue...to those crooks that are in charge...they full well know this Fair point but that is it's only escape route.

A ****ing joke of a national league is what it is.

basiltherat
12-07-2014, 00:24
It offers the chance of Champions league football, maybe not instantly but that's where those long term plans that everyone bores on about come in.

Long term planning is something that is always a good idea some time in the future as far as most Rangers fans are concerned

In our time in the top league the next Old Firm game was about as far ahead as the majority would look. It was always the most important one in the history of the club for some manufactured reason or other

The thing about long term planning is that it's long term. You don't start at some unspecified point in the future you start now. It doesn't mean you spend the money now it is perfectly possible to have a plan to invest at a time in the future.

Our planning at the moment is as it has always been. Bring in players who can do a job next season and worry about the one after that when next season is over.

rinosprayer
12-07-2014, 00:30
I would settle for a long term plan now. I just want someone to tell me what the **** it is.

Gullane
12-07-2014, 00:38
No matter what Board we have the football we have played under Ally wont win the SPFL so all this talk of CL is superfluous

bayernbear
12-07-2014, 00:49
Long term plans are great if fans are prepared to accept that defeats, even embarrassing ones, are going to be part of the journey. When we win people go crazy because we don't win well enough, when we draw people want to march on the stadium. We once had a manager with a long term plan and he went home before Christmas.

sensiblesteve
12-07-2014, 06:54
This is made even funnier by your username.

Fantastic input to the conversation .......

INVERURIEBEAR
12-07-2014, 06:59
Long term plans are great if fans are prepared to accept that defeats, even embarrassing ones, are going to be part of the journey. When we win people go crazy because we don't win well enough, when we draw people want to march on the stadium. We once had a manager with a long term plan and he went home before Christmas.

Well IMO we have missed the opportunity to do this right 2 years into the supposed 3 stage plan we are still just signing players to get us out the league we are in and we have still had some embarrassing defeats and shite performances along the way yet this manager remains in place !

Downblu
12-07-2014, 14:18
We've got every chance of playing champions league football in our first season back in the top flight IMO , the tarriers aren't great don't have " world class players " and are rapidly downsizing

Fingers crossed they make a Rex hunt of it this year ( and there's a fair chance they could ) then we will see if they've all these supposed millions they claim to have

We won't be a million miles away with a couple of decent signings the season after next

Celtic aren't brilliant neither are the sheep , we've just signed a striker in Boyd who will out score anything they've got up front just now , I suppose time will tell

Their day of reckoning won't be that far away ...


I so hope u r right. However I think they would destroy us at the moment and with Ally in charge unless Delia is equally as bad. IMO they r being smart with the downsizing - why spend when they don't have too? Also their ST sales must be lower than ever. I suspect however they will have a few quid stored up by the time we get back

Lance Uppercut
12-07-2014, 14:33
I'm not sure where the assumption that we'll be able to qualify for Europe after getting up next season comes from.

We couldn't beat Maribor & Malmo with a team light years ahead of the squad we have just now under the current management team.

CPA Bluenose
12-07-2014, 14:34
Long term plans are great if fans are prepared to accept that defeats, even embarrassing ones, are going to be part of the journey. When we win people go crazy because we don't win well enough, when we draw people want to march on the stadium. We once had a manager with a long term plan and he went home before Christmas.

It may have helped if he had a short term plan too - one that didn't involve us being in 5th place :angel:

By the time we get up to competing for a European place the Scottish League will have sunk so far we'll be travelling to the Faroes and Latvia for pre pre pre qualifying rounds. The manks will fall down the rankings too, as their downsizing and half-empty stadium sees their team quality being reduced.

Scottish Football will take generations to recover from summer 2012.

mentalbox
12-07-2014, 23:00
It's not a land of milk and honey, the only reason we want to be in it is for European Money. That's what we need to survive and why the tims tried to get us banned from Europe in the first place with all their song complaints during our 3IAR. They needed the European money just as bad as we did, and still do.

Both Rangers and Celtic are too big for Scottish Football and require more cash than is available here to compete at the level we want to compete at. It simply isn't sustainable to run both clubs purely on Sponsorship and TV money available in Scotland.

OF too big for Scottish football ?? That can be argued but what's certainly true is they ridiculously I'll equipped to play proper football with any quality level European performers .